Rainwater Harvesting - Illegal?

[Pat_]

I was just describing the increased interest in Rainwater Harvesting in the UK to a guy from Denmark, at a working group meeting on a completely different subject. He turns out, in his spare time to operate a water supply organisation, from a bore-hole to around 20 households. He said two things which I think were interesting:

1) (off topic) The UK was the only country he knew who didn't allow the mixing of hot and cold water in a pipe, in case it contaminated the supply. He asked why not just put a non-return vave on the cold main inlet, which is what his small supply organisation does.

2) (more relevant to the title) People do harvesting, among other reasons, to save money on their metered costs. But the water which they save having to draw from the main, they still have to pour down the drain. Now the meter is used both to decide how much water is drawn and how much is disposed of, so using rain-water is a way of avoiding the disposal costs.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting enough to post, to see if anyone had any comments, or if this is old stuff which has been mentioned before.

[Amy]

Ssssshhhhhhhhhhh

Dont give a water company ideas. Or a government for that matter. They are all too keen to promote with one hand and penalise with the other.

If they get a whiff of this, there might be new charges to claw back the difference

[knighty]

1) (off topic) The UK was the only country he knew who didn't allow the mixing of hot and cold water in a pipe, in case it contaminated the supply. He asked why not just put a non-return vave on the cold main inlet, which is what his small supply organisation does.

at work (I make dog food) Northumbria Water visits every 3 to 5 years to make sure there's no possibility of anything being 'sucked' back down the water main

so we're not slowed anything like hose pipes or water tanks with the filler below the water surface coming straight from the pain... we either need to use a fancy little connector which has an air gap, so there's no possible way anything can be sucked down... or use header tanks where the water enters the tank from a nozzle above the top of the tank.... so they'll overflow before the water reaches the filler....

we have a couple of dozen hoses and maybe a dozen tanks of water / boilers.... and the fancy little non return valves are £60 and pretty rubbish too.... so we just use header tanks everywhere :-)


they're pretty easy going about it, there main worry is that if there's a water cut, or a drop in pressure, someone else (local) could have a booster pump/pressure washer/etc.. connected and there pump could suck dirty water out of our factory down the mains and up through there pump.... thus contaminating the mains for everyone !

[shiela_robins]

isnt rain water free?  sorry i'm confused.  we use rainwater collected in order to water plants...

[Hugo]

Some of us use it to wash cars and flush the loo as well Shiela.

[Pat_]

isnt rain water free?  sorry i'm confused.  we use rainwater collected in order to water plants...

The point is that disposing of water by flushing it into the waste collection pipes is a service which you have to pay for. At the moment the amount a metered customer has to pay for waste disposal is measured by the amount of water drawn from the water main. If you flush more than you draw then there may be a case for saying that you are avoiding paying for waste water (and other stuff) disposal. Metering waste water would be impractical owing to the presence of the other stuff.

Just a point for discussion, I have no personal agenda. Watering plants would not be an issue, and washing the car wouldn't either as long as soakaways were used. I can see an issue with flushing the toilet though.

[Iain]

Pat
In the SW the water that falls on the roof is classed as going into the sewer so we are being charged (a percentage of the sewerage amount)for it anyway. If our roof water goes purely into the ground/soakaway we can get a discount on our water bill. So my rainwater collection is from the roof, it just goes via the toilet/washing machine into the same sewer as it would have done. All paid for and legal.
Iain

[EccentricAnomaly]

isnt rain water free?  sorry i'm confused.  we use rainwater collected in order to water plants...

Depends where you live.  In Colorado until recently it was not:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/18/nation/na-contested-rainwater18

I believe the law's been changed there since then.

[marktime]

By harvesting your own you also save the water co. the expense of purifying it to drinkng standard before flushing it down the toilet!

MarkTime

[petertc]

Pat,,
I have been thinking about this and in harvesting the rain water you are not adding any more water into the sewer that would go in anyway. ( if you are collecting from gutters that discharge into the sewer anyway.
You are using less mains water so there is also the reduction in the sewerage treatment costs and also you could be helping in reducing surges during high rainfall ( if you tanks are empty ) so you are in effect helping the water companies  not sure that they will always see it like that!.

if we had a soak away for the gutters then this would be different.
Also agree with Marktime as well

We are now down to about 42-44 M^3 year now for 4 people highest usage 5 years ago was 180 m^3.

The water bill is still £200 for the year  ( so a saving of over £600) per year from where we were 5 years ago ( not all of this down to rain water harvesting) maybe a saving £70-80 per year on the rain water harvesting side of things

[Pat_]

Interesting replies. It's obviously not all black and white.

If I'm not mistaken, building control will insist on gutters draining into soakaways on new build and extensions, so not all gutter water goes down the drains regardless. On that basis, eventually none will.

[Iain]

Pat
If that happens you should be able to pay the lower rate for sewerage charge. ie only sewerage going into the sewers.
Iain

[Pat_]

That's interesting. I know for a fact that all our gutters, and front drive run into soakaways. I've checked our water bill (Thames) and found that we are paying £20 extra which we shouldn't be doing. Right! First thing on Tuesday then! Pity it isn't retrospective! Thanks for making me check this up.

[Iain]

Pat
A section from southwest water showing the 2 sewerage rates
8.   

This indicates which sewerage service you are paying for

Sewage 1 includes foul, surface water and highway drainage

Sewage 2 includes foul and highway drainage but excludes surface drainage
Iain