What is all this im told i need? mcs etc?

[weejimmy]

ok im told i need the following
a ofgem approved  generation meter  theres some on the main site so thats ok
also a 3 phase imoprt/export  meter installed by a MCS acc installer. what is one and where do i get them?

Dose this all need to be installed by the mcs acc installer or just the inport/export meter?

and can i have all this installed before i set my generator up? or do i have to have it all up and running 1st?

im planning on using a 40kva wvo powerd genny basicly.

thanks

[martin]

Probably the most expensive part........ which for some odd reason, noone's mentioned - inverter(s). The electricity coming out of your genset is going to be "lumpy", and will nowhere near synchronise with the mains - to be allowed to connect and export you'll need grid-tie inverters (highly expensive and complex electronic gubbins that will take your lumpy leccy, and turn it into beautiful clean pure sinewave energy that CAN be grid-tied)
To give you an idea of price - http://www.navitron.org.uk/product.php?proID=106

[stephendv]

Instead of converting the AC to DC only then to convert it back to AC through inverters, isn't it possible to use a synchronous generator from the start?  http://www.talentfactory.dk/en/tour/wtrb/syncgen.htm
Or have these not been blessed with magical MCS fairy dust?

[Ted]

I think the MCS stuff is an unnecessary distraction. This technology is not covered by FITs or MCS.

If it is classed as one on this list http://chp.defra.gov.uk/cms/roc-banding/ (maybe Energy from Waste) then you can get ROCs at about 9p/kWh.

The import/export meter installation is usually arranged via your grid supplier. The total generation meter would need to be a model that is on the OFGEM approved list - but it only needs to be installed by a qualified electrician (with 3 phase experience).

Latest approved meter list is here: http://www.nmo.bis.gov.uk/fileuploads/Schedule_4_-_30_March_2010.pdf

You should find out if a half-hourly meter is required or not. If so it may need to be a specific model with internet access built-in.

[weejimmy]

so even if i had a big lister powerd genny thats 3 phase i still need a separate inverter?
i take it the leccy that runs the tools isnt good enough to go to the grid then?
ive seen ones for 5kw at £2000 so i imagine one for 30kw would be rater more £££

[stephendv]

Not just about being good enough, but also about being in sync with the grid.   

[northern installer]

wee jimmy,if the power output from your genny is compatible with the grid,you may only need proper syncronisation and automatic disconnection gear,I suggest you talk to your electricity supplier under the g59 agreement

[weejimmy]

i cant seem to find a inverter / syncro thing any where that will do 30kw. only tiddly ones for solar / wind up to like 3-4kw.

any tips where to look?

thanks again for all the help its realy making it so much easyer.

[daftlad]

I think Noah has a water mill which is synced into the grid and it doesn't use an inverter.
Have a look through his early posts under "show us yours".
ta ta

[guydewdney]

There is Nigel Smith - who makes grid tie systems iirc.

Also - there is a three phase 'solar relay' which will control any contactor you like - 40kva for example - but you need a separate relay and sync relay (I have an unused one for sale...)

[weejimmy]

i found a 30kw grid tie invertor, bargin at only £23,000

well i dont think ill be producing any green energy if thats the costs involved.

i looked at the water wheel thread but i dont realy understand how hese done it,
im not a electrical person at all.
 i think im way over my head.

[martin]

Let's see if I can help........... The mains supply is alternating current (it "alternates" at a very regular nominal 50 times a second), so if you want to shove power into the grid it's got to be "in phase" (alternating in step with) the grid supply - there has to be a mechanism of some sort to ensure that it gets and stays "in step"........
so essentially there's a couple of ways - an incredibly complex gadget that keep the engine/genny running absolutely bang on speed (expensive and complex), OR an "inverter", another expensive bit of kit that can take in "mucky" electricity, and emit clean perfect pure sinewave electricity that you can connect to the grid (expensive, a couple of grand for 4kw or thereabouts). The other part of the"G59 or 83" standards is that there has to be an automatic "dead man's handle", so that if the grid goes down, your supply has to cut instantly (or some poor sod up a pylon could get fried by your chipfat genny - rather appropriately!)
All of these gubbins are necessary, complex, and bally expensive (as Ken said, there's no easy or cheap "amateur" route). Then there's the MCS thing, which boils down to the fact that unless your installation is new equipment, fitted by an MCS accredited company, you can't register for the higher payments........
SO, it is probably possible, but economically really isn't a "goer" - you'd be better off using the power on farm directly to supplant use of expensive imported electricity - and perhaps using the cooling water to heat the house, or be used round the farm
Hope that helps - clear as mud now!

[weejimmy]

thanks for that it makes a lot more sence now