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Author Topic: Rainwater toilet- don't laugh ( too much)  (Read 10917 times)
Iain
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« Reply #90 on: October 12, 2010, 08:48:41 AM »

Hi
Might be some use
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2960.0.html
I have 6000 lts storage
2 people in the house.
I use 1 cuM from the mains/week
and  2 cuM from the tanks/month.(2 toilets and washing machine)
The 6000 lts are probably a minimum I can get away with. I can only collect from the back of the house and the shed. Although i have linked next doors rear guttering into mine for a bit extra. I have been down to 500 lts at one time.
Iain
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1.98kWp PV  (11 x Sharp 180 and SB1700)
20 x 65mm Thermal and 180ltr unvented
6000ltr rainwater storage
Plymouth
pontiff
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« Reply #91 on: October 12, 2010, 07:56:50 PM »



How do you monitor your tanks and what are you doing if you run dry?



look back a couple of pages and you will see my outstanding attempt at electronicsteneering a basic water level monitor. I just have a quick look at that on the way into the house every night.
I can top it up from the garage with a hosepipe connection if needed but there's been plenty of regular downpours round here recently so haven't needed to.The rain is collected from both sides of the main roof and both sides of the double garage now so it fills up very quickly.
Still playing around in the garage trying to make a decent homemade , easy clean filter to upgrade the one I've got.
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pontiff
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« Reply #92 on: December 27, 2010, 06:45:46 PM »

After a thankfully short (couple of hours) power cut and losing my only heating source ( combi gas boiler) I was once again drawn to the question of using some leisure batteries and a pure sine wave inverter to power the combi for a few hours. It seems to use around 150w when the pump is on.  

If I could persuade an electrician to do the work could something like this be used attached to a couple of big leisure batteries in series?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1000w-Pure-sine-wave-Inverter-charger-solar-wind-24V-DC_W0QQitemZ140494297536QQcategoryZ41981QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m506QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DNGRI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D140493283564%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5949722177273996898

Do regs allow me to have a plug and socket on the combi so I can just swap it over in a power cut?
It's also been suggested that the boiler might not fire up if it doesn't detect an Earth connection. How is something like the above earthed?

It goes without saying I would get a proper leccy person to do all this but want to buy the bits and understand a bit of whats going on. Any advice greatly appreciated.

p.s. the water stuff on this thread is drained down for the winter. I think it was a good move.
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KLD
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« Reply #93 on: December 27, 2010, 07:49:04 PM »

p.s. the water stuff on this thread is drained down for the winter. I think it was a good move.

We've only got a 200L butt in the garden, and I missed the opportunity to drain it. Today I found it toppled over. Well, it's frozen solid throughout, so that the flat bottom became quite convex  facepalm

Klaus
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Other-Power
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« Reply #94 on: December 27, 2010, 08:52:13 PM »

After a thankfully short (couple of hours) power cut and losing my only heating source ( combi gas boiler) I was once again drawn to the question of using some leisure batteries and a pure sine wave inverter to power the combi for a few hours. It seems to use around 150w when the pump is on.  

If I could persuade an electrician to do the work could something like this be used attached to a couple of big leisure batteries in series?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1000w-Pure-sine-wave-Inverter-charger-solar-wind-24V-DC_W0QQitemZ140494297536QQcategoryZ41981QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m506QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DNGRI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D140493283564%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5949722177273996898

Do regs allow me to have a plug and socket on the combi so I can just swap it over in a power cut?
It's also been suggested that the boiler might not fire up if it doesn't detect an Earth connection. How is something like the above earthed?

It goes without saying I would get a proper leccy person to do all this but want to buy the bits and understand a bit of whats going on. Any advice greatly appreciated.

p.s. the water stuff on this thread is drained down for the winter. I think it was a good move.

That works, my parents have a plug on their boiler (oil) and have one of these to run the central heating, lasted every power cut they have had so far.

PM me if you want one for half the price.

Jon
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pontiff
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« Reply #95 on: December 27, 2010, 09:22:48 PM »

Cheers Jon,
I might well take you up on that offer. Any earthing issues? My combi is a WB greenstar 30cdi which is reasonably modern and have been told it might not start up if it doesn't detect a proper earth?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 09:27:02 PM by pontiff » Logged
knighty
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« Reply #96 on: December 27, 2010, 09:29:01 PM »

don;t worry about an earth, your earth goes to a rod in the ground (or maybe your water pipes) either way.... it still works in a power cut Smiley
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pontiff
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« Reply #97 on: December 27, 2010, 09:44:18 PM »

don;t worry about an earth, your earth goes to a rod in the ground (or maybe your water pipes) either way.... it still works in a power cut Smiley

But if I unplug the boiler and plug it into the inverter it wouldn't be earthed anymore would it? Excuse my ignorance on this subject if this is a daft question. That's why I leave electrons to the experts.
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knighty
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« Reply #98 on: December 27, 2010, 09:49:46 PM »

you plug the boiler into the inverter, and the inverter into the wall....

when you have mains power, the power passes through the inverter to the boiler and keeps the internal batteries charged...

when you loose mains power the inverter powers the boiler


(the earth is just passed through all the time)
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Other-Power
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« Reply #99 on: December 27, 2010, 10:14:29 PM »

you plug the boiler into the inverter, and the inverter into the wall....

when you have mains power, the power passes through the inverter to the boiler and keeps the internal batteries charged...

when you loose mains power the inverter powers the boiler


(the earth is just passed through all the time)

What he said, the earth runs through the inverter in this example.  Either way I wouldnt worry to much about it personaly.
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pontiff
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« Reply #100 on: December 27, 2010, 10:33:43 PM »

Ahhhhhh..... I get it now! Thanks very much for your patience.  genuflect
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mespilus
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« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2010, 12:32:38 AM »

Any reason I could not connect
my central heating controller and pump
through one of these
as a back-up against power cuts?
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pontiff
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« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2010, 09:52:20 AM »

Any reason I could not connect
my central heating controller and pump
through one of these
as a back-up against power cuts?

I've inspired somebody again! extrahappy

Unfortunately I only have the ideas, so I can't help (unless it involves chemistry or dealing with teenage thugs) but the genuinely clever people will be along shortly to assist , I'm sure. Grin
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knighty
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« Reply #103 on: December 28, 2010, 11:02:08 AM »

yes, that will work fine :-)


but watch for which one you get.... most of these ups systems are designed for computers... and most of them are only made to keep you going for 20min so you can smooth out the spikes and shut-down before you loose power...   so get a big one if you want it to run for a while!
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SimonHobson
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« Reply #104 on: December 28, 2010, 07:06:57 PM »

Any reason I could not connect my central heating controller and pump through one of these as a back-up against power cuts?
No problem at all really. The easiest way to do it is to arrange for the supply to the whole system to be via a 13A plug which normally goes into a socket on the wall. In many cases, it will simply be a matter of replacing the fused spur with a single socket, and putting a plug on the end of the flex that went into the fused spur. Once you have that, it's simply a matter of unplugging the system, plugging in the UPS to the wall, and plugging the system into the back of the UPS (you may have to remove the 13A plug and fit a CEE22 plug (aka 'kettle plug')).

As knighty says, you need to look at the runtime of the UPS with your system load. I'd suggest the easiest way to do this is to get the supply altered first, then you can use one of those plug in energy monitors to see how much power your system takes to run (don't forget that it will take different amounts of power depending on what's running - pump, boiler with burner lit, etc). Measure both "power" in watts, and "volt amps" (aka reactive power in the trade) and get maximum values for both.

The first critical thing is that any UPS you get must have a capacity which exceeds the two values you've measured - they normally have two ratings, power and VA, although they might not both be shown in the description. If the UPS is not large enough then it may well shut down when the load gets too high.

Then you can look at runtime. Most UPS manufacturers have some sort of runtime chart or calculator for their products - so you can select a product, and work out the runtime available for your load. You may have to do some guestimation since the load won't be constant.
To get more runtime on smaller UPS systems, it's usually easiest to buy a bigger unit. Alternatively, and this isn't supported by the manufacturers on most small units, you can add extra batteries - this may mean modifying the unit. If you decide to do this, start with an oversized unit because ... the smaller units won't be continuously rated ! When mains is present they are doing very little, but when the mains goes off you will be running the inverter which will create heat, and when the mains comes back there will be heat from the charging system. On small units they will tend to rely on the battery giving up before the inverter gets too hot - so adding batteries risks overheating. If you start with an oversized unit, then this shouldn't be a problem.
I still wouldn't suggest adding batteries hugely bigger than the originals - eg if the original battery was only 7Ah, I wouldn't suggest connecting batteries of tens of Ah (such as an 110Ah leisure battery) as this may overwhelm the charger when the mains comes back on.

Take take this as anything scientific, but my "gut feeling" is that something like a 1000VA unit should be fine with extra batteries to run (say) a 200W load. Something like the APC unit someone mentioned earlier has (IIRC) something like 24V 7Ah or 11Ah batteries. Adding some extra capacity up to (say) 40 to 50Ah total shouldn't be a problem.
This isn't something I've tried, it's just my "gut feeling" about where I'd be starting if I were to experiment.

I've changed batteries in a few of these small units from time to time at work. Occasionally we end up with "surplus" ones when it's been a better choice to simply fit a new unit, and a couple of these surplus ones now run my computers at home Wink

However I'm still waiting for the boss to make a decision about our big UPS at work (about 8kVA running off that) - that takes 20off 44Ah AGM batteries. About a 1/4 ton and the replacement cost is over a grand Shocked The last set dried out and are knackered though some of them might be usable to for lighter duties with the addition of a touch of water.
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