System design questions

[BruceB]

I am designing a system to go on the roof of a listed building (an old mill).  The panels will be behind a parapet and have to be mostly hidden from view from the ground, but that limits the height of them to 1m - 1.5m.  I want to do this as my first install to get MCS registered, so need appropriately certified panels.  So questions:

- can the flat plate panels be used in horizontal/landscape format?  If so, any disadvantages?
- the 47mm tubes do not claim to be MCS certified (or solar keymarked) so am I right to assume they are not certified and not suitable?

Regards
Bruce

[guydewdney]

dunno - but does the old mill come with a water wheel?

[BruceB]

dunno - but does the old mill come with a water wheel?

Sadly long gone.  But it does have a pond/small lake which is used for the heat pump.

[dhaslam]

But what about the water flow  has that gone too?

[Baz]

Flat panels of a suitable type can work in any orientation and I would hope the mfr's info makes this clear and how to plumb them in. There can be designs that are orientation specific so if you cannot find assurance from the mfr or work it out from a bit of common sense then try another supplier.
I thought MCS certification only covered generation ie PV, water, wind while solar water would come under RHI which hasn't come into play quite yet and is possibly stalling. If it does cover tubes then it is essential to get traceability. This might not be a label on the product but rather a mfr's type number on the device with associated certificates to show its qualifications.

[Ted]

The critical thing is to ensure that the product is listed on the MCS site http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/Home+and+Business+Owners/Microgeneration+Products so you need sufficient info so as to be able to positively identify it.

(And yes, Baz, MCS does apply to heat systems such as solar thermal, biomass and heat pumps. This was required while these systems attracted grant funding under the Low Carbon Building Programme and has been continued in expectation of the RHI.)

[BruceB]

But what about the water flow  has that gone too?

No, there is a small river and weir.  Turns into a big river a few times a year after the right combination of steady rain then storm.  The pond/lake also has a fair amount of spring water flowing into it from the high ground around here which helps keep it warm even though I am taking heat out of it.

[BruceB]

Flat panels of a suitable type can work in any orientation and I would hope the mfr's info makes this clear ........

I thought MCS certification only covered generation ie PV, water, wind while solar water would come under RHI .............

Although I am new to posting here, I have been reading it for years and like some of the attitude/approach.  I did not make it clear properly in the question, but I was asking particularly about the Navitron flat panels.

MCS includes RHI and the RHI transition arrangements were published in the consultation docs.  As Ted says, we do not yet know exactly what the RHI final scheme will be.

Regards
Bruce

[BruceB]

The critical thing is to ensure that the product is listed on the MCS site.....

I knew that, but they have been slow keeping it up to date and some manufacturers have been slow getting their products on it.  To my great initial disappointment, my Nibe 1330 heat pump was missing from the MCS site, but after I spoke to Nibe at Ecobuild earlier this year they now have it on the list as a Transition product.

On the solar thermal side there are no Navitron panels listed on the MCS site, but Ted's comment prompted me to look more deeply at who the manufacturer of the Navitron panels is and they are indeed listed, albeit on the solar keymark site rather than the MCS site, which is also OK.

Regards
Bruce

[daftlad]

But what about the water flow  has that gone too?

No, there is a small river and weir.  Turns into a big river a few times a year after the right combination of steady rain then storm.  The pond/lake also has a fair amount of spring water flowing into it from the high ground around here which helps keep it warm even though I am taking heat out of it.

http://www.navitron.org.uk/category.php?catID=70

Maybe worth thinking about?
We like hydro.
ta ta

[GavinA]

Flat panels of a suitable type can work in any orientation and I would hope the mfr's info makes this clear ........

I thought MCS certification only covered generation ie PV, water, wind while solar water would come under RHI .............

Although I am new to posting here, I have been reading it for years and like some of the attitude/approach.  I did not make it clear properly in the question, but I was asking particularly about the Navitron flat panels.

MCS includes RHI and the RHI transition arrangements were published in the consultation docs.  As Ted says, we do not yet know exactly what the RHI final scheme will be.

Regards
Bruce

all the navitron plat panels are listed as vertical panels, and therefore presumably can only work in a vertical / portrait orientation - certainly the ones I've installed would definitely not work as horizontal panels.

 hope this helps.

[BruceB]

all the navitron plat panels are listed as vertical panels, and therefore presumably can only work in a vertical / portrait orientation - certainly the ones I've installed would definitely not work as horizontal panels.

Yes that looks to be the case.  I have read the installation instructions through now and they only give examples of vertical/portrait orientation.
Regards
Bruce

[Baz]

It looks like the navitron panels have a manifold top and bottom with tubes going vertically between them, hence orientation specific. This wouldn't matter one iota in a pumped system but everyone would frown at it and bleat about power failures.
The in-roof installation doc is interesting in showing the cross section. Someone should make a version (probably do) without back insulation where the existing inter-rafter insulation provides the necessary. This would make flush mounting that would be far less obtrusive for listed buildings and national parks.

[BruceB]

To answer the first of my own questions, the flat plate panels Navitron sell are FKA-240-V.  The "V" stands for vertical.  The manufacturer also makes a FKA-240-H which is designed for arrays in horizontal/landscape format.  Whether I can get them through Navitron is another issue.
Regards
Bruce