Chris Huhne would like every new house to meet Passivhaus standard

[A.L.]

Hi all,

In a speech to the first Passivhaus conference Chris Huhne said "I would like to see every new home in the UK reach the Passivhaus standard" and perhaps promisingly "We need a new paradigm in housing. Where value is measured in the running costs to 2050 and beyond"

www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/news/CH_Passivhaus/CH_Passivhaus.aspx

[desperate]

Well  fine words maybe, but what we need is fine deeds, they have been talking for years so I wont hold my breath


Desperate.

[SimonHa]

Personally I think the code for sustainable homes (http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/codesustainabilitystandards) goes quite a long way at the higher levels already. Don't get me wrong, in an ideal world I think we'd all live in homes with Passivhaus levels of insulation etc but being an old cynic, I just can't see it happening whilst energy is still relatively cheap - it would need a huge change in the house-building industry (rather than self-build where I think it will become fairly commonplace).

It was interesting in the link you posted that that he said "Even in the UK, with some of Europe’s oldest housing stock, the Passivhaus standard can be achieved." I blogged about PassivHaus a couple of years ago - it says "the total energy demand for space heating and cooling is less than 15 kWh/m2/yr treated floor area" so for a 200m2 house that is only 3000kWh pa for heating. If I can reach that level I will be very pleased indeed!

[stuartiannaylor]

Every new house should reach Passivhaus standard, its a ******* crime if it doesn't. Its what to do with the existing housing stock is the puzzle for me.

You can try and retrofit Passivhaus but the nearest you will come to it is trying as in most cases the basic structure is wrong.

Any refurb should get grants for attaining standards of insulation. A simple test should be a temperature differential test of indoors and outdoors and how much heat is retained for a set period, relative to that differential. That should be the pass standard and not some *** with a clipboard walking round a house afterwards.

"SIGN THE GREAT BRITISH REFURB PETITION FOR MORE CASH FOR YOUR HOME REFURBThe Great British Refurb is calling on the UK Government to introduce cash rewards such as a rebates on council tax to ensure people whose homes have been improved by installing energy efficiency measures are financially rewarded. We also want to see the Government cut VAT on the costs of refurb."

http://www.greatbritishrefurb.co.uk/sign-our-petition-for-more-cash

[SimonHa]

...We also want to see the Government cut VAT on the costs of refurb."...

Is it just me, or is anyone else fed up by the way, when there is reduced VAT avalable (e.g. on insulation or solar products), it is only when part of a "professional" installation? As one of, I suspect quite a few "internet-researched serious DIY'ers" it is galling to have to pay a 12.5% (soon to be 15%) premium for the pleasure. Note: I'm not knocking the trade, just saying that the VAT regime seems unfair.

[djh]

The speech is generally just full of good intentions and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of passivhaus.

But there is one very clear statement of policy. Here's the important and very alarming bit:

"The Green Deal will be underpinned by a strong framework of standards and accreditation - for assessors and installers.  Eligible energy efficient measures will be focussed on the building fabric, and will have to be installed to the highest standard.

Using only accredited products, and materials which meet strict performance and safety criteria."

Here we go again.

[EccentricAnomaly]

A simple test should be a temperature differential test of indoors and outdoors and how much heat is retained for a set period, relative to that differential.

Agree with the general sentiment (grants based on performance achieved) but don't see how you can easily measure the heat retained.  Temperature and heat are different and the difference is very important.  A thermally lightweight house interior might cool quicker even though it's better insulated, so uses less energy at constant temperature, than a heavyweight interior.  You might say, then, base it on the power input required to keep a constant temperature difference but that's very difficult to measure too what with charging thermal masses, changing outdoor temperatures, effects of wind and sun and so on.  It's really hard to improve things when you can't measure them easily which is a significant part of the problem in the first place, I think.

[stuartiannaylor]

"Using only accredited products, and materials which meet strict performance and safety criteria."

Thats the bit that gets me and the vat concessions only on new builds, complete jingle bells jingle bells isn't it.

Any product and anyone should be able to have grant access. The reciepts should show proof of purchase and the collection of energy bills previous year to year after of install. Might require some sort of stepped payment.

Something needs to be done with local government dodgey tender lists and inflexable accreditation schemes.

If a general consensus could be made on how renewables and insulation could be opened to a wider audience with reasonable assesment procedures.
Then we should all get on to Mr McCloud about a petition to stop this goverment nonsense.

The temp diff test was an angst spur of the moment thing. Something needs to be done and the current prat with a clipboard just doesn't work. Its mainly to stop developer cons who say they have complied, really they have lied. I know developers who show enough to make it look like insulation and a good refurb has been produced. Really they have made a shiny painted turd to sell on quick and cash in.
The temp diff test with measurements of inside and outside and the collection of ambients with consideration to thermal mass off the top of my head would be better than what they do. Its main job would be to capture scams

[dhaslam]

The other  problem from official sources is planning permission and  non sympathetic building regulations.   In Ireland  the maximum wall cavity allowed is 150mm which is about half of the recommended width.   In many areas  planners will interfere with window sizes and shapes,  supposedly  to match buildings built hundreds of years before.      

[stuartiannaylor]

I think there is a problem in the types of people attracted and certain local authorities when it comes to building regs. They seem to be more interested in getting reports in "Corn flower blue" rather than a common sense approach.

There should be a name and shame list of inspectors, developers, builders and authorities. If they have a repetition of inclusion in the list then somebody with a clip board should assess there suitability.

[SimonHa]

The other  problem from official sources is planning permission and  non sympathetic building regulations.   In Ireland  the maximum wall cavity allowed is 150mm which is about half of the recommended width.   In many areas  planners will interfere with window sizes and shapes,  supposedly  to match buildings built hundreds of years before.      

A maximum allowed cavity?! If I were ever to do a self-build (unlikely - we would be living in a caravan for years!) I'd want at least 2 * 90/100mm Kingspan/Celotex to give a U value of around 0.1. There doesn't seem an point in scrimping on insulation when it is so cheap at the build stage...

[Paulh_Boats]

Lets face it there is zero spare cash for the Green Deal, so its not going to happen in the next 5 years. Best thing is to ratchet up the Building Regs.

Lets hope the Government at least dismantle the Nanny state.

-Paul

[stuartiannaylor]

Its down and scheduled for 2012.

BUT! read this http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2010/nov/24/green-deal-is-not-a-good-deal