Central heating programmers are rubbish.

[daftlad]

Well maybe not all but the one that some plumber supplied for my mums new under floor heating.
It was a combined programmer thermostat from Danfoss, a TP 5000 Si.
The problem was that there is no way of changing the programmed temperatures without getting into the programming, for that matter there was no way to manually switch it off. You can turn the temperature down but it shoots back up at the next day.
I didn't look at the programming because it wasn't cold enough but then the boiler starts firing up, grrrr
How are less than technical people (my mum) supposed to figure them out?
The other thing is it needs batteries, why? it's got a wire so why would it need batteries?
I have fitted a normal rotary thermostat and a programmer exactly the same as what she already has for the rest of the central heating.

I guess my point is how much fuel is being used needlessly because people can't figure out how to work there equipment?
ta ta

[Billy]

Perhaps if you had a permanent connection to your 'puter you could keep an eye on it for her.

Mine has batteries so it will not loose it's (is the ' in the right place) programming in the event of a power failure.  After all you wouldn't want to have to sort it out again would you.  Leastwise I would not like to do it as it's in a cold tiny space where you can't see the screen very well.  I think mine are rechargeable and it just keeps them topped up or sumat.

Have a smite for moaning about looking after yer Mum, what's t'world coming to eh.

Wasting fuel, Mrs B has 5 gears and once the sounds are on she only gets to 3rd and says there must be something wrong with it, it's sooooh slow.     Like when she said there was a bumping noise on right handers.  Further investigation and it turns out it's the cat's eyes.  Oh, the CD keeps jumping, what do you mean -jumping.  Well the tracks aren't in the right order.  That'll be the random feature then.  I love Mrs B, she has me in stitches all the time.  Good lateral thinker though.  Ooops 'er she comes, tiptoes away quietly..........

Billy

 

[daftlad]

Perhaps if you had a permanent connection to your 'puter you could keep an eye on it for her.

Mine has batteries so it will not loose it's (is the ' in the right place) programming in the event of a power failure.  After all you wouldn't want to have to sort it out again would you.  Leastwise I would not like to do it as it's in a cold tiny space where you can't see the screen very well.  I think mine are rechargeable and it just keeps them topped up or sumat.

Have a smite for moaning about looking after yer Mum, what's t'world coming to eh.

Billy

 

It relies on the batteries, it only has 2 wires, Live and Switched Live, so no way of charging batteries.
Not moaning about having to look after her, more moaning about plumbers, nothing changes there then. 
ta ta

[dinitro]

If its stuck on the wall should go for a Danfoss TP7000M

mains driven..... if you get the TP7000MA it has a remote sensor

there are many mains driven controllers.

I also found the controllers not really upto it especially if you want to quickly change the program.

However the other point is that temporarily you want to decrease/ increase temperature but do not want to alter the preset program permanently.

dinitro

[KenB]

Daftlad,

I agree entirely.

When we put in new central heating for my father in law, he couldn't cope with the wireless thermostat and fancy digital programmer.

Rather than put the silly old sod in a home, we swapped the wireless thermostat for a £6 one from B&Q with a knob on the front and found an old "clockwork" timeswitch.

Saved an absolute fortune 


Ken

[mespilus]

There's a market for an astute company to produce
an 'age-assist' programmer/controller

with:
1) a bigger led or display
2) bigger buttons
3) A 'read-through' menu on the LED, to overcome the problem of lost/mislaid instructions.

similar in concept to those landline phones that had oversize buttons
to aid the less dextrous.

Are existing ones all similar sizes to meet some DIN or EN standard?

[dhaslam]

They aren't really all that bad except that they all have to be set initially. There are two simple ways to override them.    Pressing the two buttons together effectively  switches the heat off and pressing them individually increases or  reduces the temperature until the next  time section.    There isn't all that much else they need to do.

[daftlad]

They aren't really all that bad except that they all have to be set initially. There are two simple ways to override them.    Pressing the two buttons together effectively  switches the heat off and pressing them individually increases or  reduces the temperature until the next  time section.    There isn't all that much else they need to do.

Or you put it on ebay and fit something else. Anyone want to buy a programmer? 
ta ta

[Billy]

Ah, I have a brilliant idea,

what about an on/off switch?

Billy

 

[daftlad]

Ah, I have a brilliant idea,

what about an on/off switch?

Billy

 

I thought about that one, as well as the stupid programmer.. 
Thought it was way too simple, and someone would end up leaving it switched on.
I have a couple of these http://www.horstmann.co.uk/water-heating.php which I got off a job which are good for some things  like erm battery drill charger, maybe would work on heating.
ta ta

[KLD]

Dare I say I don't agree with the whole direction of this thread?   
The only concession that I'd make is that the installer clearly has fitted something that's not appropriate for the situation and the customer. This does not mean, the controller is rubbish!

If you want simple on-off function, put a switch there. A thermostat function? Use the dial type. Want to set the temperature to different levels at different times of day or week? Use a programmable room'stat. The more demanding the control functions, the more involved will the user have to be.

If your programmable unit is a replacement, then chances are that there are only two wires. For those moments a battery powered unit is helpful, isn't it?

Whatever, stop moaning 
Klaus

[Much]

I got supplied with a bunch of battery ones for my UFH, after I specifically asked for the 'Mains Wired' option.
Turns out the 'Mains Wired' option just means it can control a 240v valve 
I don't quite get the point here either, as their manufacturer (honeywell) does produce a mains powered version (but not an option, apparently), and it was specifically for a new install (no real scope to retrofit if you're putting in new UFH, is there?!?). The non-mains option apparently just comes with an different relay box to switch the same 240v valves anyway.

Am debating listing them on ebay too...

[Antman]

Having used the TP5 and now TP5000 for years I agree with KLD.
If you want a simple "manual control" that stays where you set it - but can be fiddled with by anyone and (unintentionally) left at 25+ degrees - then go for a cheap and cheerful bi-metal stat. Probably the best option in daftlad's Mums case as she is probably home a lot during the day.

If on the other hand you want something that saves you fuel by dropping the set-point at times when you are regularly out of the house (at work) and will automatically revert to the correct set-point on the next program step if someone has over-ridden the setting, then go for a programmable stat.

The position of any room stat and the corresponding settings makes all the difference as to whether it will deliver the expected performance or not.

Simples

Antman

[daftlad]

Klaus/ Antman,
Of course you are right, but......
How many people bother?
By which I mean a good proportion of people find programmable stats too difficult to use or simply can't be bothered to learn or loose the instruction book or, or, or.....
I like the Idea of setting different temperatures for different times of the day but I do believe they (well the one we had) are too difficult to use (unless you are a geek (like us)).
I have lived in plenty of places with other people and a good proportion don't even set there TRV's how can you expect them to set there stat up correctly?
Sorry I have a low opinion of people, most can't be bothered to learn.
ta ta

[KLD]

Daftlad,

Don't get me wrong here, please, it's not about low opinion about people etc. For people who can't muster the interest to even learn how to set a TRV, the programmable room'stat clearly is not the right product. If you as a installer had dictatorial tendencies, you could still install one and set it to what you think is good for them / the planet. They'd hate you for it, though. 
I'm still optimistic about the proportion of people who have enough energy awareness to be motivated to learn how to make best use of the gas the have to pay for.
Even better, for those people leaning about setting the heating periods could actually be a first step to raise their awareness about their personal energy usage / expenditure.

Klaus
   Always look on the bright side ....