Waste heat / low pressure steam engine

[stuartiannaylor]

http://www.cyclonepower.com/

Another technology that I would appreciate comments about. This can use heat of about 250°C to generate.

[Baz]

Just a flash steam boiler and engine wraped up into a compact self contained unit. The only new feature really would be a piston material that doesn't need lubrication with superheated steam.

[stuartiannaylor]

Flash steam boilers are slightly out of my remit

So the temps here they are a lot lower than normal. Operation down to 250°C.
Do the energy returns and efficiencies look advantageous?

Actually reading this (Flash steam boiler?) I was looking at http://www.cyclonepower.com/whe.html

Its the engine I am interested in, didn't see a boiler.

My knowledge is very limited but this does offer extremely low pressure operation as opposed to others?

[Baz]

The boiler is wrapped aroune the top in the diagram rather than being a separate unit. They mention 3200psi which is a lot, and 1200F  which is also a lot. Then they mention "Note, no motor oil is used – water is both the working fluid and engine lubricant." which is tosh as there isn't going to be any water around at that temperature. Above about 150C you need oil or some sort of special material, like ceramic that can doesn't wear.

The engine part is otherwise nothing special, just a radial.

[stuartiannaylor]

http://www.cyclonepower.com/PDF/WHE_Spec_Sheet.pdf
http://www.cyclonepower.com/PDF/WHE%20Electric%20Power%20Output%20Equations.pdf

Are we looking at the same product ?

[knighty]

they have 2 systems, the steam engine, and then another with the same steam engine with a burner unit ontop, I think Baz is talking about the 2nd one

still.... it doesn't look like anything special to me... it can run at 250*C and 40psi.... but with naff all power output.... you need the high numbers for anything decent

they talk about using for industrial chimneys etc...  when really, a much larger slower steam engine would be better - to make full advantage of the massive amount of (relatively) low level heat..... (to make a much larger volume of steam)

[stuartiannaylor]

Thanks,

You wouldn't have any examples would you ?

[renewablejohn]

Ive been watching the development of this engine for over 3 years and in my opinion its more of an investors tool rather than a cutting edge engine.  Its been under development in various disguises for 30 years.

http://www.saabhistory.com/2008/04/04/the-nine-cylinder-saab-steam-engine/

The temperature of 250C is the standard temperature range of thermal oil steam operations which provides a maximum of 25 bar pressure. When you consider old traction engines typically run at 10 bar pressure you realise that 25 bar can generate useful amounts of electric not at high efficiencies which require greater pressure. If your using waste heat then any recovery has got to be worthwhile

My two girls in my Avatar work off 10 Bar pressure and generate 600kw

[Dyslexicbloke]

Whatever technology you are talking about the temperature differential and the amount of thermal energy moved will dictate the output ...

If you want steam and genuinely low pressure then step a few hundred years backwards ......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomen_steam_engine

Dependant on the working fluid and weather you are looking at phase change or not there are all sorts of defined thermodynamic cycles but you will only ever get out a small proportion of what you put in.....

It worth remembering that if harnessing low grade heat was easy then industries would have generators not cooling towers ….

Shouldn’t stop us trying though … The fact that it doesn’t exist, doesn’t always mean it cant exist …. It usually about economics, increasingly expensive energy will make previously uneconomic technologies an economic reality.

Alistair