throwing salt in your well against freezing pipes

[billi]

  ... i thought i ask first

My well is about 200 metres away from the house and since last winter we have more problems with freezing pipes ...

We do not drink our well water (even we could )

All my filters and some pipes  were frozen for the last 10 days ....

Today is the first day all is defrosted , so i am thinking of ad/dose salt  to my pipework to change the freezing point

 

Sure i know i have to improve the situation for later years , but Tuesday is supposed to get cold again

How much salt percentage would change the freezing point

and please tell me that i am Nuts if necessary

Billi

[HalcyonRichard]

Hi Billi,
           I presume that the water in the well is not frozen. My partners father was a builder and long ago before pipes were buried at 750 mm he would leave a tap running a little. The flow was enough to prevent freezing. I had a new water connection to a newly built house. The water company insisted on 750 mm deep water pipe and the entry to the house had to be below a certain level - to prevent freezing. In the stop cock hole on the pavement they fitted a 50 mm circle of polystyrene to prevent freezing. So could you bury or insulate or run off a trickle of water ?

Regards Richard

[billi]

Thanks Richard

or run off a trickle of water ?

  will perhaps be my best option for now  and cause it is "only " surface water that feeds our well   not a waste or a crime

Just have to figure out how to avoid my waterpumps are running   when a tap is open  ......

Cu later have to go plumbing .....

Billi

[Countrypaul]

iirc 1 mole of solute will depress the freezing point of 1 litre of water by 1.86K. 1 mole being 58.5g for common table salt but because it has 2 ions it will have double the effect, so you will need about 30g/litre of table salt to reduce the freezing point of water by 2K (degrees C if you like).

Remember that the salt solution will accelerate corrosion of any steel parts and you may have to consider carefully how you dispose of the brine.

Paul

[tony.]

Billi, what about pipe insulation?
As discussed on other thread, some short lengths of trace heating could be used to raise temp of the pipe i imagine you could run the tape when your generator is running to save the batteries.

What about burying the pipes deeper?

Tony

[welshboy]

Thanks Richard

or run off a trickle of water ?

  will perhaps be my best option for now  and cause it is "only " surface water that feeds our well   not a waste or a crime

Just have to figure out how to avoid my waterpumps are running   when a tap is open  ......

Cu later have to go plumbing .....

Billi

We have a gravity feed from a well and a little trickle has kept the pipe from freezing.
Maybe a little spurt now and again would keep it free if you have a pump.

[mespilus]

Could you sheath your water supply pipe in the next size up,
using unequal 'T's as the entry and exit points,
and fill the annular hole with brine,
thus avoiding any contamination?

[Heinz]

or run off a trickle of water ?

  will perhaps be my best option for now  and cause it is "only " surface water that feeds our well   not a waste or a crime
Just have to figure out how to avoid my waterpumps are running   when a tap is open  ......
Cu later have to go plumbing .....
Billi

My supply is a spring which trickle feeds an underground holding tank, water pump with accumulator draws from this and feeds the house. The system is fairly well insulated but things do still sometimes freeze overnight in really cold weather. If it's more than about -15  at bedtime I turn the kitchen cold tap on a fraction. Just the smallest trickle, not even a constant flow, more a constant drip which is enough to stop anything freezing till morning. Presumably the pump cuts in every hour or two for a few seconds? I only discovered this a few years ago and much b*ggering about during many winters....

Heinz

[dhaslam]

I had a problem in January with  the mains supply freezing.    This time I put a bale of straw over the meter  and set the washing machine on its timer to come on an hour after the dishwasher finishes and, touch wood, no problems so far.   It looks like the  meter was installed far too high up,  the dial is only a few inches below  ground level.  The meter  installation was supervised by the  county council.   I am tempted to put a few tonnes of clay on top of it.   

If there is no  genuine use for the  water at night perhaps a way of monitoring the temperature at some point on the feed and run water until it warms up a bit. 

[billi]

Thanks

the straw idea is a good idea to built a temporary shed around my filters and pump

To leave the kitchen tap on (trickle ) is possible as well , but i have to switch off two pumps then overnight to let us sleep in peace

[Justme]

Could you sheath your water supply pipe in the next size up,
using unequal 'T's as the entry and exit points,
and fill the annular hole with brine,
thus avoiding any contamination?

Dont think that will work.

Basically what you will have is water that freezes at 0c surrounded by a liquid that freezes at -15c (dep on saline concentration) but is still at say -5c. So the plain water will still get cold enough to freeze even though is surrounded by a still fluid liquid.

The extra mass might help slow the cold travel to the plain water.

[Dyslexicbloke]

Have you considdered just dreaining it ....
Our sump, spring fed, to tank line is circa 250m witha 20m lift but as the pump is in the sump and there is no none return valve the line is always empty unless it actually pumping.

If you install a header tank inside your property, or outside but well insulated, you will only need to fill the externalline when it needs refilling.

Just a thought ... Obviousy I dont know your circumstances

Al

[billi]

defrosted today about 15 metres pipework (under our log-cabin ) with about 5 spoons of salt 

But leaving the tap idea open (trickle )  is working as well , but left an outside tap open  and did not think it will freeze under the house 

Will leave the kitchen tap open and shut down pumps now

Thanks Billi

[Justme]

Billi,

How did you thaw the pipe with the salt?

[billi]

... opened a connection (i would have cut the pipe as well and connect it again ) , lifted the end as high as i could and funnelled salt in

I did this before  over a 30 metre distance downhill  outside surface  pipe , but was not sure it was the sun that did the job or the salt

But today the sun never came out and always below freezing , so i think the salt did the job 


billi