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Author Topic: Researchers develop reactor to make fuel from sunlight  (Read 1109 times)
stuartiannaylor
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« on: December 24, 2010, 02:10:25 AM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/dec/23/reactor-fuel-sunlight

Sounds interesting

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6012/1797.short
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 02:12:48 AM by stuartiannaylor » Logged

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desperate
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2010, 07:53:31 PM »

3 gallons of fuel a day from the roof wackoold wackoold 30 ish kWh/day after the inefficiencies?Huh? how big is this roof ? do I spot another chocolateteapot


Desperate
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renewablejohn
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2010, 08:06:08 PM »

How on earth can you file a patent to use a natural material. Next they will patent oxygen and charge you to breathe
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Philip R
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2010, 08:36:46 PM »

Last year on the BBC James May programme, the subject of energy was discussed.
Apart from Nuclear fusion, High altitude wind kites and some other stuff, the subject of manufacturing a liquid Hydrocarbon fuel from Sunlight watera nd CO2 was coverred.

The device was somewhere out in California, large steerable mirror, demonstrated cremating a sausage. The mirror assembly would dwarf many a UK back garden, but the three guys involved, claimed that at a push, maybe under a gallon (US) 3.7l a day could be produced. Note there sunshine is stronger than ours.

Basically sounds similar to what is being publiscised today>

Philip R
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stuartiannaylor
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 01:09:36 AM »

How on earth can you file a patent to use a natural material. Next they will patent oxygen and charge you to breathe
Dunno mate the patent thing has gone mad, but if they don't then someone else will.
Its like the basmati rice story where india had to take the american dna company to court as when they mapped the dna of basmati rice they patented it.

Its just ferking perverse Smiley

If you read into corporate patent and patent purchase and licensing agreements its now one of the biggest protectnism rackets going.
Sad as completely the reverse of what patent was originally for.
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stuartiannaylor
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2010, 01:17:18 AM »

3 gallons of fuel a day from the roof wackoold wackoold 30 ish kWh/day after the inefficiencies?Huh? how big is this roof ? do I spot another chocolateteapot
Dunno its just one of those whacky science stories of a new method. I guess similar to PV in the 70's.

So far there is only one other method and that requires solar towers and huge heat inputs. The hydrogen fuel method looks like our best option due to the products of its combustion.
Bio fuel is a non starter due to finite earth limits unless the new 3d growth tanks come off.
But its just a science story what happens in the lab to what is proposed as a finished product are different stories.
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tz0c0s
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2010, 12:39:32 PM »

Hi All,
  Correct me if I am missing something. The new process produces Hydrogen & Carbon Monoxide from sunlight & water. A separate process can use these gasses to make a liquid fuel, all be it in small quantities.

Are we not half way there already, I am sure I can make hydrogen & oxygen from sunlight in my shed if I was in the mood. Solar PV & a Browns gas generator are no longer rocket science.

I appreciate Hydrogen is not an energy dense element & useful storage has many problems. Although interesting, I think cooking the sausage was the most useful part of the process.

Andy
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EccentricAnomaly
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2010, 01:36:48 PM »

Correct me if I am missing something.

Will do.   Wink

Quote
The new process produces Hydrogen & Carbon Monoxide from sunlight & water.

Also needs carbon input in the form of carbon dioxide.

Quote
Are we not half way there already, I am sure I can make hydrogen & oxygen from sunlight in my shed if I was in the mood.

I was in that mood at one point (except it was in my kitchen, as I didn't have a shed).  Adding a bit of salt makes it fizz more.  The problem, however, is that it's not a very efficient process.  I presume that the waste product is heat.  If you're thinking of using PV output for heating anyway - CHH (combined heat and hydrogen) with a nicely engineered fuel cell and sensible low pressure storage of the hydrogen on site might almost make sense.
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stuartiannaylor
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2010, 02:37:50 PM »

Are we not half way there already, I am sure I can make hydrogen & oxygen from sunlight in my shed if I was in the mood. Solar PV & a Browns gas generator are no longer rocket science.

Hydrogen fuel cells are problematic in that they need a very pure form of hydrogen. I am not sure of the chemistry but simple electrolysis doesn't provide the right stuff Smiley. I am sure someone will explain why hydrogen generation for fuel cells requires huge temps and much processing.
I wonder what the sausage tastes like?
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tz0c0s
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2010, 09:32:40 PM »

Thanks for correcting me  Smiley

I saw the James May thing. Entertaining he is too.

Here are three clips from someone that uses home made hydrogen to power his life. Including storage and a fuel cell amongst other things.
I saw a different interview with him but these are much better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz3IJr5wuQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLwJ8T7kWvY
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4969

Regards Andy
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pontiff
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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2010, 10:31:24 PM »

Are we not half way there already, I am sure I can make hydrogen & oxygen from sunlight in my shed if I was in the mood. Solar PV & a Browns gas generator are no longer rocket science.

Hydrogen fuel cells are problematic in that they need a very pure form of hydrogen. I am not sure of the chemistry but simple electrolysis doesn't provide the right stuff Smiley. I am sure someone will explain why hydrogen generation for fuel cells requires huge temps and much processing.
I wonder what the sausage tastes like?

Electrolysis of water can be used to obtain pure hydrogen to use in fuel cells but it is expensive. It requires roughly three times the energy to split the water as you get back from the fuel cell and still needs additional processing. I believe the hydrogen must be dried as too much (or too little) water content can damage the platinum catalysts in the proton exchange membrane.

The major processing and high temps are necessary when obtaining the hydrogen from methane, methanol and various other fuels as even tiny amounts of carbon monoxide produced when extracting the hydrogen has a catastrophic effect on the platinum membrane in the fuel cell.
There are some new membranes being developed made from nanoparticles of platinum, titanium dioxide and a pinch of tungsten which can cope with small amounts of CO and so will be more commercially viable as less cash will need to be spent purifying the hydrogen. Personally I'm not convinced about a so called hydrogen economy but there's my Christmas tuppence worth!
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SnaxMuppet
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 01:01:01 AM »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12051167
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