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Author Topic: Grid Voltage Too High - What can I do?  (Read 3622 times)
SnaxMuppet
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« on: January 15, 2011, 09:02:34 AM »

I have recently installed a Solar PV system but the inverter keeps tripping out due to high grid voltage. The normal voltage seems to be around 245-248V which would be fine except that it occasionally spikes over 255V and this trips the inverter.

In fact, yesterday, when it was partly cloudy, it tripped everytime the sun came out from behind a cloud for a while. It then reset and was fine again until the sun went back in and when it next came out if tripped again. It did this about 6 times in a row and was then mostly OK for the rest of the day.

I have got on to the installer and they have looked at the error codes and don't think there is a problem with the inverter but they are changing it anyway (which is good IMO). However, with the grid voltage being that high normally it is always going to be prone to the odd spike above 253V.

So I wondered if anyone has had any luck approaching your DNO to get the grid voltage adjusted? Are they open to this kind of request?
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Ted
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2011, 09:59:11 AM »

Talk to your DNO. They should at least be prepared to come and install a recording device to measure the extent of the problem.

Whether they are then prepared to actually do anything about it is another matter.
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Iain
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 09:59:54 AM »

Hi
I think the upper limit is 230v + 10%.= 253v
So yours seems on the high side. They might reduce it but worth checking your side first.
Have you checked the voltage in the "house" as well as the inverter?
What cable size and length is between the inverter and consumer unit?
If the cable is on the small side there will be a volt drop in the cable when the inverter is feeding out and the inverter voltage will be higher than the house voltage by that volt drop.possibly taking it over the limit.
The installer could also measure the volt drop  between the live conductor on the inverter and the live conductor in the consumer unit when the inverter is running.
Iain


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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 11:57:37 AM »

1, Yes, the kettle takes a little longer...

2, There is a reduction in consumption, because there is a relation between Volts, Resistance and Current, hence power consumption. Probably 10% reduction, because of the change from 250v to 220v.

3, I am not sure what payback that works out to,


1, Thats cos its using the same total energy but at a lower power rate. 1L of water will always take the same TOTAL energy to get from the cold temp to boiling. In fact its using slightly more energy due to a longer time with thermal losses, but thats really quite small.

2, In general there is no reduction. The rate of consumption is lower but the total used is the same. Remember V = I x R ? Change one & the others change to keep the status quo.

3, Never is as close as you are going to get.

All of the above is for domestic billing.

Businesses get billed by peak demand / load so they do have a reason to reduce peak consumption, so a slower boiling kettle thats still uses the same kWh to boil might have only peaked at say 1.8kw & not the 2kw rating due to the reduced V so they get billed for the lower peak. Going up one peak demand band can have huge cost implications.

I know when I used to moon light at a road side cafe (Happy eater lol) we had to turn all the electric stuff (griddles, fryers ect) on one at a time & wait till one was hot till turning on the next. That kept the peak low unless we were very unlucky & they all came on on the stats at the same time.
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marshman
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 07:11:55 PM »

Hi,
Had exactly the same problem. Was worst at weekends during the afternoon. If it is  continuously sunny you can turn on some load in the house to drop the grid volts a bit but it goes against the grain. I eventually contacted my DNO, EDF, They appeared on the scene within 24 hours "worried that we might have an earthing problem on the PME" The engineer had a quick check and said yes the volts were on the high side - he came at tea time and he measured 250V - but because he hadn't seen it above 253V he couldn't do anything himself. He said he would report it for investigation. 2 weeks later they came and installed a recorder to log the grid volts at the main fuse. They did this for 2 weeks and concluded that the mains did occaisionally go above 253V and would investigate further. I received a phone call after about 3 weeks saying they had "made some corrections to their AVR's (Automatic Voltage Regualtors) which should improve the situation. If it didn't then I was to call them back. It sort of did though the inverter does occaisionally trip out on high grid volts.

I do have a problem in that I have a 22m run from the inverter to the incoming main and when the inverter is putting out over 2.5kW there is a volt drop of around 2 to 3V. So the incoming grid voltage only needs to get to 251V before the voltage seen by the inverter rises to the max of 253V. The engineer from EDF did say they had been told to allow an extra 3 or 4V on top of the 253V if the property was feeding back into the grid. He also said that he was not sure that they had any obligation to assure the max voltage in this situation.

Overall I have to say EDF were efficient and helpful and the problem occurs less frequently now - but I don't watch it religously and also it is winter!

Get in touch with your local DNO and tell them your findings at the very least they will come and install a recoder to check it and tell you the results so you can see for yourself how bad the problem is.

One word of caution with your DVM. If it is one of the cheaper ones it may be quite inaccurate. I compared mine with the "properly callibrated" one the EDF engineer had and mine read 4volts higher at 250V which is only a 1.6% error.

Roger
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Justme
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 08:14:37 PM »

Rodger,

Fit a thicker cable to reduce the voltage drop.


What size is fitted now?
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Total bank 4350 amp/h @12v
SnaxMuppet
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 02:43:57 AM »

First of all, thanks to every one for your comments.

Voltage drop from inverter to consumer unit is unlikely the cause... it is less than 2 feet!

I have investigate voltage regulation... I looked at Vphase. I decided that it wouldn't help in this issue although it may help in reducing the total engery useage but not by as muchas they suggest.

I think I will contact my DNO on Monday and see what they suggest.
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BruceB
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2011, 02:38:51 PM »

One thing that occurs to me is to question whether the inverter is set to the correct country.  The over-voltage limits and disconnection times vary significantly. Some examples from BS EN 50438:2007 (G83/1) are:
GB 264V    1.5s
IE 230 + 10% (= 253V)   0.5s 
FR 230 + 15% (= 264.5V)    0.2s
BE 230 + 6% (= 243.8V)      0.2s

So in this country a few volts over 253V should not trip it.  I know the country is adjustable with the SMA inverters but you need a 'personal code' from SMA I believe.  I do not know whether the Fronius ones are adjustable via the menus.  Worth checking the label or the menus and asking the installer about it.

Regards
Bruce

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SnaxMuppet
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2011, 10:59:36 PM »

IIRC it is a UK model and specifies UK on the label underneath but I will check again tomorrow. Thanks
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 12:11:01 AM »

In order not to disturb the main thrust of this thread I've carried on the power optimisation aspect over on this thread: http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,569.15.html
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Wookey
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2011, 10:16:24 PM »

263 volts is the tripping voltage of SMA SunnyBoys.
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SnaxMuppet
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2011, 10:26:40 PM »

I contacted my DNO (Western Power Distribution) by email and 2 days later I had a call from their distribution manager asking to put in a monitor for a weel. They are installing it either tomorrow or Thursday. He seemed very open to the suggestion it could be too high and said that they would trace it back through the 11KVA and 33KVA substations to correct it!

More info than I needed but at least he seems on the case.

More info when they have the results.
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Alan
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2011, 10:32:42 PM »

Before the Smiting correctors come along.

Should be K.V. Not K.V.A.

They did replace all the 415 volt cables in our village after a similar event.

Regards

Alan
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SnaxMuppet
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 10:51:36 PM »

 genuflect  genuflect  genuflect

Thank you... that is the second thread I got my electric stuff wrong on! Needless to say... I know little about this clever tricity stuff... as you can see  Wink
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 07:57:00 PM »

Western Power are good guys, sure they will sort it, look froward to seeing the outcome.

Jonathan
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