navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
UK's most popular Renewable Energy Forum May 24, 2012, 12:49:30 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: UPDATE ON DECC APPLICATION FOR LEAVE TO APPEAL TO THE SUPREME COURT | Yingli Green Energy's PV Module Ranks No.2 in TUV Rheinland Energy Yield Test | Navitron Solar Showers at Glastonbury for Year 5!
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Ecobuild  (Read 3037 times)
Ivan
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1221


« on: February 27, 2011, 12:37:52 AM »

Ecobuild is next week. Moved to the Docklands, which might be more sensible than inner london, but still a lot more hassle than more central venues like NEC etc.

Navitron will be there. We've got a rather large stand. Somewhere directly in front of the main entrance. I'll be there Tuesday and Wednesday. If you're going to Ecobuild feel free to wander over for a chat.
Logged

Navitron Member of Staff
www.epogee.co.uk - Solar PV & Solar Thermal Training / MCS
wookey
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2672


WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2011, 03:27:06 AM »

I'm planning to be there. Not sure which day yet.
Logged

Wookey
martin W
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 548


what do you mean my snoring is too loud!


WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2011, 09:10:09 AM »

I'm there on thursday...

earls court is earsier to get to via tube (can park outside london).
Logged

Woodstove Newbie since Feb 2011 Tongue (yes it's finally off the pallet)
Solar Water Heating since 17th March 2009
Chicken Owner - Self sufficient in chicken c*@p, boy watch those tomatoes grow. 
Now an allotment wannabie Tongue
Outtasight
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 843



WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2011, 11:07:08 PM »

If I can get Tues off work, I'll have a look-see.  Probably around mid-day as it's off-peak rail fare and between rush hours.
Logged

http://solarbodge.blogspot.com/ also BDPV Production Graph (daily update)
2.80kWp & 400Ah LiFeYPO4 off-grid. See 'Cobbled together PV in W.Sussex' (in "Show Us Yours")
Outtasight
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 843



WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 12:09:36 PM »

If I can get Tues off work, I'll have a look-see.  Probably around mid-day as it's off-peak rail fare and between rush hours.

See ya'll on Tuesday... My boss is easy...  No, wait.  That came out wrong.  Tongue
Logged

http://solarbodge.blogspot.com/ also BDPV Production Graph (daily update)
2.80kWp & 400Ah LiFeYPO4 off-grid. See 'Cobbled together PV in W.Sussex' (in "Show Us Yours")
djh
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1222


« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 01:29:24 PM »

I'm planning to be there tomorrow, Tuesday.
Logged

Cheers, Dave
Brandon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1245



« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 08:12:21 PM »

may drift in tomorrow, but there for Wednesday really.
Logged

changing the world, one roof at a time...

"We can't be B&Q astroturfers. That's one conspiracy theory too far. You should cut down on the pot." - Wookey
rhys
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1109



« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 10:36:35 AM »

Won't make it this year Docklands a bit too far really, Earls Court was easy. NEC even better!!
Logged
wookey
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2672


WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 01:04:58 AM »

Brandon - you going to be on a stand or just wandering around? I guess this is too late for you to read :-)
Logged

Wookey
Outtasight
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 843



WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 01:45:41 PM »

Went yesterday and was amazed at how big it was and how many people were there.

Reminded me of when I used to go to those big DIY computer fairs in the early 90's to buy new motherboards and CPUs and adapter cards and so on.  A real "new industry" buzz.

After you've seen a million different but seemingly identical PV modules on various makers and distributors stands, you have to be left wondering... How would a installer choose a supplier to go with?  Everybody was selling the same thing and that leads you to the inevitable question of price being the only differentiator and almost nobody would quote a price for anything.  Go figure...

I did get a steer from one stand that the black Chinese modules that they sold were known to be performing better than the more well known brands and were only £1.39/Watt.  Not sure about this aesthetic trend for blacked out modules.  That only makes them hotter in the sun and that makes them less efficient...

Lots of thin film stuff coming on to the market now and finally in W/m2 that are getting closer to that of crystalline modules.  New mounting systems too for them that do not require frames (saving lots of aluminium).

Disappointingly, not much going on on the Navitron stand (not just my observation, but that of the staffer I spoke to, who said it had been "a slow day").  Actually, the most interesting bit was at the back of the stand with the guy who designed the combined electric / solar coil retro-fit immersion heater gizmo.  An impressive bit of brass and stainless steel that looked like it belonged in Dana Scully's lab from the X-Files... Kewl!

Suprisingly, an almost total lack of anything to do with off-grid.  I eventually found a couple of stands that had some off grid kit (or on/off grid power backup kit).  There was a strong contingent of Chinese PV module and inverter makers but I'd expected to see some of the storage guys promoting large format Lithium cells or at least the usual crowd of lead acid suppliers... Nada... Zip.  Well, one stand had a very dusty cutaway model of a Rolls battery hidden almost out of view but no promotion at all of how to store all this loverly but intermittent renewable energy.  Missing a trick... big time.

Also next to nothing on low energy lighting.  Maybe three stands.  One was promoting something like studio spot lights for expensive shop display use.  Interesting only because it showed that LED lights can make a seriously bright light to rival halogen.  One was selling "designer" CFLs that looked like they'd been designed by taking cues from "Mr Messy" from the Mr Men.  One was selling some MR11 & GU10 LED spots and more "normal" designer CFLs.  Pretty but not an innovation.

One thing that did catch my eye was an industrial control and instrumentation system that uses Zigbee wireless control.  They had a wireless solar irradiance and temperature sensor to measure available power for PV modules (like my bodged one that I use to try and guess whether to turn on the immersion heater dump load or not).  The guy on the stand said that they don't normally sell to the public, but that if I mailed him, he'd give me a one-off price for the sensor and the wireless base station that plugs into USB or ethernet and uses MODBUS communication.  This is the same as the Morningstar controllers I have that also use MODBUS.  Might be cheaper to just re-build my wired sensor using something a bit more robust than the "water tight" tupperware box from Tescos though Grin

"Man of the Show" award goes to the really friendly and chatty Scotsman who was the designer of a big CHP gas engine generator. He could easily have auditioned for Scotty on Star Trek.  He cheerfully explained about how it recovers all the engine block heat and exhaust heat for use in the home, while making 7kW of electricity at the same time.  I told him I'd seen something like it in Frotter's Shed of Doom and that it ran on lard.  He was fascinated (in that way that Spock usually is) and countered that it had taken him a long time to get the thing to work reliably and automatically.  I nodded and conceded that Frotter's efforts required an element of baby sitting, welding, large hammering, and occasional fire fighting to keep it going whistlie

Disappointing lack of anything to actually buy at the show.  Some light bulbs...  and err... can't remember anything else actually for sale.  I did find a weird stand that was selling just solar rucsacks.  Two for £20!  That's my train fare earned back on eBay whistlie   On inspection of the almost unreadable Chinese Engish instructions, the solar module "sewn" (well bolted actually) into the back of the bag was a 1.5W 6V poly affair that charges a 2600mAh LiPo 3.7V cell and then some electronics regulate this to 5.3V for USB charging of various phones, iPod, game, etc. via a set of adaptors.  Even comes with a little wall plug to charge the battery away from the sun.  Quite a few other punters stopped me on my subsquent "hike" around the venue to say "Wow, that's cool... Where'd you get that?".

If I'd opened up a stand selling little 10-80W solar modules (that can just about be carried home on the Tube), I reckon I'd have made a killing.  Loads of business users at the rucsack stand were asking if they sold a bigger one to charge laptops...

Very curious round cell module was being touted.  Can't see how it would be any better than the square / rectangular type as it didn't fill any more of the area (that might increase module efficiency).  In fact, it makes less sense to use round cells to fill a rectangular frame, as they had to use odd sized sawn-off bits of cells to fill the gaps...  Caught people's attention because it was just "different", but technically probably a  chocolateteapot


* round cell PV.JPG (43.93 KB, 653x474 - viewed 266 times.)
Logged

http://solarbodge.blogspot.com/ also BDPV Production Graph (daily update)
2.80kWp & 400Ah LiFeYPO4 off-grid. See 'Cobbled together PV in W.Sussex' (in "Show Us Yours")
JohnS
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 898


« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 02:58:52 PM »

Thanks for the review Outtasight.  I am going tomorrow with my brother who has just bought an old house and has to decide whehter to renovate or demolish and rebuid.  I hope he gets some good input.

What was the name of the stand selling LED spots, so I don't miss it?

First time for me to Excel.  Much preferred Earls Court in 2009 and 2010 as only a few stops on the District Line instead of a trek accross London.

John
Logged

2.1kWp solar PV
biff
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2547



« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 04:30:03 PM »

brilliant review outtasight,
                          very enjoyable,
                                           biff
Logged
Outtasight
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 843



WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 06:28:33 PM »

Thanks for the review Outtasight.  I am going tomorrow with my brother who has just bought an old house and has to decide whehter to renovate or demolish and rebuid.  I hope he gets some good input.

What was the name of the stand selling LED spots, so I don't miss it?

First time for me to Excel.  Much preferred Earls Court in 2009 and 2010 as only a few stops on the District Line instead of a trek accross London.

John

Have fun.  I spent all day there and didn't see everything on the stands properly (let alone go to any of the conferences or lectures).

For the interior lighting (decorative LEDs and CFLs), I think it was an outfit called TP24 at stand S48.  There were some other LED lights but they were more commercial lighting (replacement for shop fluorescents in suspended ceilings and so on).  I saw some demos of solar powered LED street lamps with one outfit having some funky looking street lamps with cylindrical solar collectors.

Speaking of cylindrical collectors I also liked the Solyndra stand where you could see one of their cylindrical 200W solar "panels" (looks more like a folding bed than a solar panel!).  What you see, is what goes on the roof.  No screws into the roof, no ballast (other than the weight of the "bed").  Ingenious.  I talked to the American rep and mentioned having watched the long video on their web site with Obama talking at their factory.  He confided that having Presidential "approval" is a double edged sword.  Fine if your customer is a supporter of Obama but otherwise can be a hindrance!  Most (60%) of their product gets shipped to Europe he reckoned, saying that "Americans still don't get it yet.  Energy there is too cheap.".  I suggested they open up another plant in the EU somewhere.  He agreed but there was too much volatility in the EU FITs market to guarantee that by the time they'd finished building a plant here that the business wouldn't have dried up (like it has in Spain).  Can't argue with that...  Sad 

I might be tapping up an outfit called Nordan (stand N135) who make ultra low U value windows from wood (with aluminium external "armour") with U values as low as 0.7!.  They mostly export to Norway where there's a big market for ultra insulated windows and are used in PassivHaus designs.  The UK current build code for windows is U=1.8, the Norwegian base standard is 1.2 (for double glazing) and the triple glazed windows come in 0.9 (wood frame) and 0.7 (wood frame with an additional thermoplastic insulation barrier) plus IR reflection coatings on the internal faces of the glass.  I think these are the same windows that the test house at the end of my road is being fitted with as part of the national housing study that the Strategic Energy quango is doing for 60-odd houses around the country.
Logged

http://solarbodge.blogspot.com/ also BDPV Production Graph (daily update)
2.80kWp & 400Ah LiFeYPO4 off-grid. See 'Cobbled together PV in W.Sussex' (in "Show Us Yours")
docka
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 119


« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 07:25:36 PM »

Fantastic report, Outta, cheers. Wanted to go along but couldn't make it.
Can you remember what the name of the company selling the solar rucksacks was called?
Cheers
Logged
martin W
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 548


what do you mean my snoring is too loud!


WWW
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2011, 07:35:09 PM »

well done outasight... excel..ant review  Tongue


got me slavering at the mouth now. nice to see ecobuild have got a planner attachment on their website.. kind of made it easy to make a list of what I'd like to see....

navitron here I come,.,,,,,,,


Logged

Woodstove Newbie since Feb 2011 Tongue (yes it's finally off the pallet)
Solar Water Heating since 17th March 2009
Chicken Owner - Self sufficient in chicken c*@p, boy watch those tomatoes grow. 
Now an allotment wannabie Tongue
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!