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Author Topic: Nuclear power  (Read 19199 times)
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« on: March 12, 2011, 09:42:18 AM »

Mankind likes to think he has control of his own creations, sometimes Nature also - which time and again is proved wrong. The prediction of the future, whether it is the climate or economics, is a huge business which swallows millions. And yet it comes up with predictions most intelligent and informed people would suggest in an hour's brainstorm and which are tentative at best.

Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear power generating station is a reply to our ever-increasing demand for energy - our own energy gap is going to be filled with nuclear power, with many Greens onboard. I have long thought that at best, nuclear should be a temporary stop-gap - not a worldwide pollution problem. We aren't in control of the future and never will be. Even in relatively gentle Britain, over the last century there has been social unrest and war - which can render sensitive installations like nuclear power very vulnerable.

My heart goes out to those affected by the earthquake and tsunami, as well as those whose lives may be affected by escaping radiation.
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martin
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 09:48:09 AM »

well said! - from today's Independent -

"State of emergency declared over fears of nuclear leaks

Japan was fighting to avert a nuclear disaster last night as it declared a state of emergency and evacuated thousands of people from around two damaged power plants.

Officials conceded that radiation levels were 1,000 times higher than normal inside the Fukushima Daiichi power station, about 170 miles north of Tokyo, and were planning to release radioactive vapour to ease pressure on a reactor. The authorities conceded that some radioactive leakage could have taken place and just as they were thought to have brought the cooling problem under control an emergency was declared at a second plant which also suffered damage to the equipment cooling a reactor.

An eighth of the world's nuclear power reactors are in Japan, and yesterday three plants were reported to have received some damage. A fifth of the country's nuclear power generating capacity was closed down.

The most serious problem was at the Fukushima No 1 reactor; a fire broke out at another plant and a third was said to be leaking water. Yesterday almost 3,000 residents in Onahama City were ordered to evacuate as Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco) confirmed that pressure inside a reactor at Fukushima had risen after a cooling system was knocked out by the earthquake.

By late yesterday, radiation levels were increasing within the turbine building and the pressure had risen to twice its designed capacity. The company said it had been trying to restore its emergency power system so it could reverse the falling water levels inside the reactors and avert the exposure of nuclear fuel rods.

As experts handling the emergency prepared to release radioactive vapour to ease the pressure, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the amount of radioactive element would be "very small" and would not affect the environment or human health. "With evacuation in place and the ocean-bound wind, we can ensure the safety," he said. Initially, everyone within a two-mile radius of the plant was told to leave the area or stay indoors after a state of emergency was declared at a nuclear power plant for the first time in Japan but later the evacuation of all people within a six-mile (10km) radius was ordered. Mr Edano insisted that the alert was a matter of precaution. "We launched the measure so we can be fully prepared for the worst scenario," he said. "We are using all our might to deal with the situation."

Experts said there could be radiation leakage if water levels in the reactor fell and the temperature of the nuclear rods rose, but warned against panic. "Even if fuel rods are exposed, it does not mean they would start melting right away," Tomoko Murakami, leader of the nuclear energy group at Japan's Institute of Energy Economics, told Reuters. "Even if fuel rods melt and the pressure inside the reactor builds up, radiation would not leak as long as the reactor container functions well."

Tepco said it had shut down its three working reactors at the plant, though there were fears that the other three, which had been under maintenance, could leak water.

Further north in the worst-hit Miyagi prefecture, a fire broke out at another nuclear plant. Smoke billowed from the building where a blaze started at one of the Onagawa power plants. But Tepco said the flames, which had not been near the plant's reactor, had been extinguished. Meanwhile, another Onagawa reactor was leaking water. The International Atomic Energy Agency said that the Oganawa, Fukushima-Daini and Tokai nuclear power plants had all been shut down automatically.

With few natural resources, Japan relies on nuclear plants for a third of its power. Of the 442 active nuclear power reactors worldwide, 54 are in Japan.

Experts said that the Japanese assess the earthquake risk in any area where it builds a plant, with regulations stipulating they must be designed to withstand a 6.5-magnitude quake."

As we post this, the "nuclear industry whitewashers" will be furiously creating screeds of weasellisms to try to suggest it's all totally harmless, not applicable to the UK, and nuclear waste is actually rather cuddly and should be liberally spread on one's toast instead of marmalade................. whistlie
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 11:53:19 AM »

It all sounds a bit premature in that Indescribably article, we don't know whats really happening yet, but that doesn't stop them reaching a conclusion..........pre-judicea

Desp
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martin
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 01:03:45 PM »

premature? - they gave the news of events, and drew no "conclusions"

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kjx-JlwYtyE?fs=1&amp;amp" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/kjx-JlwYtyE?fs=1&amp;amp</a>
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 01:11:07 PM by martin » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 01:53:40 PM »

How do you blow the roof off a nuclear power station building without the reactor being damaged,  is it possible that they were just water/steam   tanks exploding?
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 02:07:48 PM »

I gather the cooling system has gone "pop", as to what other damage has occurred, I'm not sure - I gather there are fears of "meltdown" - just heard they're evacuating for 12 miles around the site.....
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2011, 04:14:35 PM »

How do you blow the roof off a nuclear power station building without the reactor being damaged,  is it possible that they were just water/steam tanks exploding?

Another theory is release of hydrogen - happened in the past:-

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080403b1.html
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2011, 04:29:46 PM »

I gather the cooling system has gone "pop", as to what other damage has occurred, I'm not sure - I gather there are fears of "meltdown" - just heard they're evacuating for 12 miles around the site.....

it cant meltdown - its a light water reactor.
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 05:18:27 PM »

And before we get into an anti nuke peeing contest, the iradiated steam is made up of an isotope which has a half life of 5 seconds and will reduce to oxygen and hydrogen.

Move along folks, nothing to see here, nukes are safe.
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2011, 05:27:10 PM »

I gather the cooling system has gone "pop", as to what other damage has occurred, I'm not sure - I gather there are fears of "meltdown" - just heard they're evacuating for 12 miles around the site.....

it cant meltdown - its a light water reactor.

Why not? I thought 3 mile island was a light water reactor.
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2011, 05:30:27 PM »

There are some 6,000 entries for "Japan nuclear meltdown" in a Google news search - I heard a nuclear expert on TV talking "meltdown"...... as for "safe" ask the victims of Chernobyl and the residents of Bielorussia just how safe it is.........
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2011, 05:39:43 PM »

and as for "safe" emissions

"Earlier yesterday operators were releasing pressure in reactor no. 1 at the Fukushima power plant, but they have now suspended that release because of the high radiation levels detected in the release.  Two radioactive substances, caesium and radioactive iodine, have since been detected outside of the reactor.  The detection of these substances suggest that a meltdown may have already begun.


AND Three-Mile island was a light water reactor.............. whistlie
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2011, 08:14:34 PM »

Your reasoning that google has 6000 news entries for jap meltdown is basis for what exactly?

google results of the following:-
Moon is made of cheese:-
127
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=moon+made+cheese#q=moon+made+cheese&hl=en&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbs=nws:1&ei=e817Tb_BGYywhAfn3ZTuBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=4&ved=0CAwQ_AUoAw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=ee5fbeb8c8e0692d

black is white
38,000 results
http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=538&q=black+is+white&btnG=Google+Search#q=black+is+white&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Giq&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=s&biw=1366&bih=538&prmd=ivnsu&source=lnms&tbs=nws:1&ei=B9R7TdGvOYTDhAfq66TwBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=4&ved=0CBoQ_AUoAw&fp=55c39e6d362830f2

light slower than water
1090 results
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=moon+made+cheese#hl=en&ds=n&sugexp=ldymls&pq=moon%20made%20cheese&xhr=t&q=light+slower+water&cp=18&qe=bGlnaHQgc2xvd2VyIHdhdGVy&qesig=FIcRjSpa4B8Uyu5WRHfhZw&pkc=AFgZ2tn_On2RUUsxJLqtc49C5JhPX6RuuLHSoiODHREBcYmi-D4ZWr3TTCQtU5ai7o7I1UX2PICPp5TG8yHtr0oomwCR7PRoFg&pf=p&sclient=psy&tbs=nws:1&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=light+slower+water&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=ee5fbeb8c8e0692d

how does that prove anything? Nuke experts have shown that it cannot realistically meltdown - now everything is a possibility:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2778490/Large-Hadron-Collider-10-other-dates-when-the-world-failed-to-end.html

it could happen - yes - but its blimmin unlikely, aparently. Like the world could have collapsed into a black hole when they switched on cern. But it didnt, it is all probabilities - ask a physicist CAN xyz happen? he will answer yes - as it COULD happen, not its GOING to happen. ask him is it LIKELY to happen - and you could get a different answer......
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2011, 08:56:12 PM »

 I said this in another thread... Fission is messy & unsafe...

 In the face of the power we have seen in Japan, we are all like incontinent infants compared to nature.

 We do not have enough understanding &/or mastery of the planet we live on for it to be otherwise.

 This is not an "anti nuke peeing contest", This is a measure of our competence & understanding! Ohh & nothing is safe when attached to inflated ego's & the lust for money... Only have to look at the banking system to see that.

 Get real folks... Tectonics tell you there are no long- term places to store long "Half life" nuclear waste... The great Glen in Scotland was formed by bits of the North American plate bumping into Europe... & yes I know it was a long time ago, but this happened at some point in time & the division of an existing plate could happen in our lifetime somewhere.

 I'm not Anti Nuke, Fusions has, at the least, the ability to reduce half life of spent fuel to a manageable level...

 This is a real Marmite subject...

 You are welcome to you're opinions, but mine are driven by my belief & not my wallet. 
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2011, 09:27:36 PM »

"for what exactly?"

.....that every single news item on the subject I could find was referring to "meltdown" (some 6,000 of them), which had been incorrectly asserted was "impossible", and in the same breath it  had also incorrectly been stated that Three Mile Island wasn't a light water reactor (which it was) - but why let the truth get in the way of whitewashing nuclear power? - it never has in the past!........ whistlie

« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 09:31:10 PM by martin » Logged

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