Low Sulphur Diesel Additives ?

[russ_fae_fyvie]

I have finally taken delivery of a new SDMO 9kVa Genny and at the same time out local Diesel supplier has started selling the new Low Sulphur Diesel.

The Genny supplied said because the Low Sulphur Diesel has less lubricating properties than the old stuff, its advisable to put an additive in the LS stuff to help the lubrication.

The local supplier said they didn't know which one to advise (and apparently Customs and Excise didn't even know about the LS stuff!) as it depends on the type of motor, its different for Tractors, etc.

I have emailed SDMO and am waiting for an answer, but does anyone on here know ?

While I'm on has anyone ever tried a warranty claim on a Pramac ?

I had to get a solenoid valve replace on the P6000S (which I have now sold, thank god!), Pramac say its a Yanmar Part and they are not responsible, the nearest Yanmar Agent is over 120 miles away so I got the local Pramac dealers to replace it, but Pramac don't want to know.

I'll probably have to take it on the chin but I will never, ever buy another Pramac.

[Justme]

Well you know I have had trouble with Pramac & the warranty.

I too will never buy another.

[mespilus]

A bit of googling will confirm that although the
(polluting) sulphur supplied much of the lubricity
of fossil diesel,
the cheapest, most effective,
lubricating agent the oil companies could find
was biodiesel,
which is added at a small % to all pump diesel.

[knighty]

either add 2 stroke motor oil (a few percent is fine, it doesn't have to be very accurate aim for between 2% and 5%)

or a bit of veg oil (same as above, but 5% to 10%...or you can easily go to 20% if you like)

:-)

[camillitech]

Hi Russ,

good luck with the genny, Mr Lister wouldn't have minded low sulpher diesel  Seriously though you should NOT be using it, not for its lack of lubricating properties but for its lack of keeping properties. Six months is all it's good for but rumor has it you can get additives. The stuff you have will separate out in the tank if left for longer 

This cr4p was introduced early January and is now mandatory for mobile plant, it is still OK to use the old stuff boats and generators as there is a safety issue and you can still buy it for heating purposes. What you should be asking for is 'Gas oil D' which is the new name for the old 'red diesel'.

DO NOT ADD ANY MORE VEG OIL TO IT as that is the problem, it already had too much in it.

Good luck, Paul   

[russ_fae_fyvie]

Hi Paul,
Thanks for that, trouble is the supplier we use only has that LS stuff now and we aren't exactly blessed with other suppliers around here, I'll ask around gor that Gas Oil D and see what I can find.
ta

[knighty]

DO NOT ADD ANY MORE VEG OIL TO IT as that is the problem, it already had too much in it.

camillitech are you sure the veg oil is the problem ? I know people who've had generators with a tank full of veg oil and left it for years without any problems...?

[camillitech]

Hi Russ,

Highland fuels 0800 224 224 supply the ferry with 'Gas oil D' and they're based in Aberdeen, they will I'm sure also supply plenty of people burning it in old heating systems.

Hi knighty,

this storage problem has only become an issue since the mandatory introduction of 'bio diesel' which I take to be veg oil, people may well 'get away' with it but it has raised serious safety concerns in the marine, off shore, and environments that require diesel powered safety equipment to lie idle for weeks, months or even years until  Imagine a hospital losing power when the grid goes down or a ship going down because the emergency pumps/generators are gummed up. Probably not such an issue with older, less fussy engines.

Up until only a few years ago all diesel was the same and the dye was added at the depot, when 'low sulpher' came out that all changed and as it's sole use was for Diesel Engined Road Vehicles storage was never an issue, who can afford to store fuel and line the chancellors pockets.

Now plant companies are being forced to use the same stuff and many are not happy, lots of plant can lie idle for months over the winter 

It does however mean that dye is now being added at many depots and is, I think now called 'gas oil A'

I could of course be talking total cr4p because I am after all a Taurus  but I have spoke to every tanker driver I've met and phoned two oil depots.

In short, no I'm not certain but why take the risk 

Cheers, Paul

[camillitech]

Apologies Knighty,

just re read your post there and I see that you say 'full of veg oil' I don't think the full is the problem so much as the mixing. If an engine is happy to run on pure veg then it should not be a problem.

Cheers, Paul

[Billy]

Since derogation or the removal of we have been having a lot of bug problems with folk buying diesel from supermarkets 'cause it's cheaper than the sulphurous red stuff in the marinas.  It really doesn't keep over a single winter even with topping tanks and changing filters.  Dreadful stuff it is.

billy

 

[russ_fae_fyvie]

Hi Paul

Funnily enough I contacted them today and the minimum delivery is 3000 liters !

Needless to say that would fill our tank 3 times over !

I'm still looking !!

[camillitech]

Hi Paul

Funnily enough I contacted them today and the minimum delivery is 3000 liters !

Needless to say that would fill our tank 3 times over !

I'm still looking !!

    

That's not so good Russ, they would deliver me 800 but I suppose that's because they'd be bringing 3000 for the ferry anyway. Again, Scottish fuels of Portree will deliver me the same but that's only on the back of multiple loads to Raasay. To be honest in your case it's probably not so much an issue as you will probably be running the generator every two or three days, mine goes for weeks, sometimes months without starting and the fuel in the tank is ancient. Probably safe enough to add some 'two stroke' as Knighty suggests and to not store more fuel than you need, though once you get more PV and the turbine up you may need to reconsider 

Good luck, Paul

[knighty]

if you are stuck using the low sulphur stuff.... could you add a small 12pump on a timer ?

suck fuel out of the button and drop it back in the top for 5 min every 24 hours ?

(even suck it out of the supply line and send it back down the return.... a new return port right at the top of the tank would be better so it drops/pours back in to aid mixing)


no good for things which are going to sit idle for a year etc... but might help for a genny which is going to be used once a week ?

[camillitech]

Morning Knighty, Russ,

now I think about it after lying awake all night perusing on the subject added 'two stroke' is probably a bad idea as it separates out quite quickly too.

I converted a Morso stove to burn 'red' when I was fishing as the fuel was free  but upon getting a proper job I started burning kerosene in it. What I noticed on mixing the two in the tank was that after a few weeks they would separate, I think the kerosene would sink and the stove would go into orbit 

Pump sounds good, perhaps the way that Russ runs his genny (frequently) he could just tap a 2430v pump into the alternator on the genny.

Cheers, Paul

[wesnet]

There has been a lot about this in the agricultural press, as a lot of new tractors must have low sulphur diesel and a lot of farms and forestry companys have got used to storing for at least a year. The most important point about storage is to keep water out, as the bugs that block filters grow in the boundry layer between the water and diesel. So the theory goes no water no bugs but this could be an issue for marine use as keeping water out has always been a problem there. There is also the problem that older systems have seals that can be damaged by biodiesel and it is also a very good cleaning agent so muck that has been hanging about in tanks for years is now being flushed out and bunging thing up.

John