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Author Topic: Performance so far - and yes, it was worth it!  (Read 3290 times)
Antman
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« on: April 29, 2007, 09:55:41 AM »

Just over a year on from installation, I have now had a full years worth of gas bills with which to do a direct comparison with the previous year(s).

The solar system, commissioned at the end of March 2006, comprises a Navitron 20-tube 47mm panel, slightly south-east facing on a 25 degree roof slope with a 1200x450mm solar cylinder (of approx 172 litres), Resol BS/3 controller plus the usual extra bits. Total cost was £1,200 with all pipework, fittings, lagging etc.

Gas consumption saved over the year April 06 - April 07 is 5400kWh which equates to approximately 23% saving over the previous 05-06 period. The saving over previous years is a little higher but it must be considered that winters are getting warmer so the the use of less central heating in the winter quarters must be taken in consideration when lauding the savings.

Actual cost saving works out to around £120 year-on-year. But, also consider that as part of the package I spent a further £300 to improve the exisiting CH/DHW controls to meet full Part-L specification so not alll the saving can be attributable to the solar installation. However this included dual cylinder stats on separately timed zones to maximise the solar gain vs boiler operation.

It must also be considered that this saving occured during the highest gas prices we have ever experienced but even compensating for this, it is still a very worthwhile return.

Putting this into context for anyone sceptical about spending even £1,500 to upgrade their entire system, £120 return on a £1,500 investment in 12 months equates to an interest rate of 8% tax free.
To get this sort of return you would either need to invest the same amount in an ISA at 8% or in a taxable account paying 10% gross - try doing that in your High Street Building Society  Cool

For the first year, I ran Resol settings intended to transfer maximum heat into the cylinder (DTO=5.5, DTF=3.5). Total solar pump run time was 1200 hours and 6 hours on Heat Dump.

I have now set DTO to 7.5 and DTF to 4.5 to run a direct comparison over the next 12 months. This allows the manifold to heat up more and maintains a slightly higher differential temperature in the solar loop which should improve heat transfer to the cylinder I now also have the Heat Dump operating at 67.5 degrees rather than 65 to allow more input for days when little or no DHW is drawn off during the day.

Antman
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 08:05:34 AM by Antman » Logged

20 x 47mm, 172 litre cylinder, Heat Dump, 15 x Sanyo HIT-H250E, SB4000TL
DIY Solar System Support at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/anthony.cooper267/index.html
All support is wholly voluntary and free of charge. I'm not employed by Navitron and have a full-time job so responses may not be same-day
manwithtool
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 01:06:37 PM »

Hi Antman,
Nice work, figures you state match my estimated savings, and have calmed the wife down a bit ! On an aside I think I might do the same as you and up the DTO setting by a deg or two along wth the DTF as well....but I'll hang on a bit until I can get some copmarable results.

Thanks
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O MidKnight
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2007, 09:09:57 AM »

Antman  Yes good work.

Hi manwithtool - Glad you are happy

A system being installed for the normal minimum £3,000 would in Antman`s case save 4% on the capital outlay. If some future maintenance charge is taken into condsideration then that 4% will be reduced. After the end of any warranty period there can always be breakdowns to reduce any savings further. Cylinders leaking, heat exchangers leaking, cylinders imploding, pump breakdowns, electrical problems, frost problems, airlocks, overheating damage, roof covering problems, glazing and tube breakage - certainly enough to keep me busy all those years for which I am very gratefull. Deduct the pollution caused by the manufacturer and the fitting of a solar water heating system. There will  then usually be a saving to the planet. I once tried fitting 5 friday special cylinders one after the other to a house. On each cylinder the coil leaked as soon as the system was filled with water. Salisbury to Dover and back five times. Lucky that I was an employee then! Today of course systems will be much more reliable. Ah -  four years ago I had to take out a one year old 40 tube east west system because the installers did not make a very good job. I could not convince the owner to keep the system. And I tried very hard. I was paid to remove the system and dispose of the removed parts complete with unvented cylinder.

Solar? Still a great feeling when showering, even after 27 years of having a solar system.
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Solar heating - makes you feel good when you open the hot tap and when you look at your heating bill
Antman
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2007, 10:46:51 AM »

Thanks Midknight - we feel a whole lot  better for that  Roll Eyes Cry Smiley

Who's side are you on anyway  Grin

Joking aside, the manufacturing cost to the environment of RE is rarely considered but is difficult to quantify. However the reliability aspect should now be very good.

Regards

Antman

PS.  It's taken you 27 years to have a shower Huh
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20 x 47mm, 172 litre cylinder, Heat Dump, 15 x Sanyo HIT-H250E, SB4000TL
DIY Solar System Support at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/anthony.cooper267/index.html
All support is wholly voluntary and free of charge. I'm not employed by Navitron and have a full-time job so responses may not be same-day
O MidKnight
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2007, 12:31:48 PM »

Hi Antman

I thought I might get a response!  My problem from a sales point of view can be blamed on those 26 years of repairs and maintenance.  Two or 3 gallons of heat transfer oil coming out of someones hot taps is not a pretty sight and can have a lasting effect. New sales were only undertaken if the customer really really wanted it (after my doom and gloom).  Cry

As for  a shower after 27 years - well you can not get much greener than that.  Embarrassed

New systems as you say should be far more reliable today - keep it simple.



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Solar heating - makes you feel good when you open the hot tap and when you look at your heating bill
Ivan
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2007, 04:09:41 PM »

Wouldn't it be nice if the government would introduce ROCs into the gas industry - you could then apply ROCs from solar panel installations, which would improve the financial return.....anyone fancy badgering their MP?

Ivan
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Paulh_Boats
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2007, 09:55:38 PM »

Antman,

Those figures sort of agree with a solar saving prediction programme I ran a while back, for about £1000 investment payback was 8 to 10 years.

cheers
Paul
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Amaterasu
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 08:17:09 AM »

Hi Ant
like you I am recording data, but in a slightly different way.
We moved into our house a year ago (give or take a week). Within 3 months I had my solar panel up and running - just in time to miss the end of the very hot July  Cry

We also changed the aging gravity fed gas back boiler for a spangly condensing jobby. The upshot being that I have no historical data to refer to..

The attached spreadsheet shows time data recorded by my bank of hour counters, some of which have not been operational for long.


The solar pump run time drops in april because I changed the settings for DTO and DTF.
Between OCT and MAR I use 6 and 4 and changed to 10 and 6 for the sunnier months.

The DHW pump run time only records time that the pump is running when the cyl stat is calling for heat AND the programmer is on for DHW - controlled by a relay (which you helped me with the connections!)

The other pages show sunshine hours and rainfall for weymouth (scraped from the council weather data).

The sun and rain sheets automatically highlight month above and below average and also the max value for each year.

Unfortunately the auto formating function only allows 3 options so I cant highlight the lows.

The max / mins and averages are based on cells that have values, so months where data is missing do not affect the averages.


http://www.geoffwebber.co.uk/solar/pump.xls

« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 11:00:57 AM by Amaterasu » Logged

Geoff.........
kristen
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2007, 08:37:47 AM »

"Unfortunately the auto formating function only allows 3 options so I cant highlight the lows"

Could you get a fourth colour by having a background colour for the cell, which will apply when none of the 3 Conditional Formatting apply?

Kristen
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Amaterasu
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2007, 08:44:03 AM »

good point kristen - will investigate.

See the forum is of value for a huge number of reasons
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Geoff.........
wyleu
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 06:29:19 PM »

I would suggest Blue. Cheesy
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dinitro
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2007, 09:56:51 AM »

Could also pay microsoft alot more money

Excel2007 has more formatting options!  Although few if anyone will be able to open the file!
dinitro
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1x 20 x 58mm panel NEE, 4x 20 x 58mm panels south, Navi-Newark 320 litre thermal store direct boiler/ rad tap by boiler, retro coil, solar coil, termovar 61, S. circuit 30m+30m flow/ return. NEE 5m flow, 5m return.  S. panel 52 degrees. NEE 45.
http://sunscribe.homeip.net
http://agni.homeip.net
O MidKnight
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2007, 01:28:17 PM »

Hey Amaterasu

That screwhead  in the switched fuse does not look vertical to me
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Solar heating - makes you feel good when you open the hot tap and when you look at your heating bill
Amaterasu
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2007, 02:52:21 PM »

Herewith figures for June

Sunshine hours for Weymouth - 181.3 (30 less than March!) and 40 less than long term average for June  Angry
43 less than May.

Solar pump time 72.7 (5 more hours than May - even though there was less sun)
Heat Dump 1.89 hours (we were away for a week in this period)
Boiler pump 11.02 hours (1 hour more than previous month)
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Geoff.........
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