Feed in rate for non-renewables?

[julian]

I cant find the rate anywhere - i think its somthing like 3.

• pence per unit.

I realise the thread title is misleading - what im actually doing is running a biomass CHP system, but, as this is still elegiable for ROCs, there is no elevated FIT availible.

However, for convinience, i want to grid tie it, and am trying to work out what i can sell the exported units for (which i think is set at the same rate as non-renewables)

I just cant work out the correct way to search for the info - all google and the search form here is telling me about is solar and wind etc.

Thank you,
Julian

[Ted]

Have a search for threads by jotec - he has a ROC registered CHP system.

OFGEM registration starts here https://www.renewablesandchp.ofgem.gov.uk/

[julian]

Hello,

Ive spoken to Dick quite a bit (spoken/pestered - whichever way you want to look at it ; ) and im sure he mentioned the feed in rate, but i cant find it in any of my inbox mails.

Basically, as i understand it, you can claim ROCs but thats irrespective of what you then do with the power (you could short it to ground after the TGM and still get the ROCs).  I want to use the power myself (ie not overgenerate) but for those times when i am overgenerating, itll be fed into the grid, and i think that should then get paid for, but not at any special rate (indeed, at less than what id be paying for units even on cheap rate) but im just trying to find out that figure.

Like i say, i think its close to 3.somthing pence per unit?

[Ted]

The standard price for FiT export is currently 3.1p - but you would not be on a FiT contract. It would be down to whatever you can negotiate with your supplier but it's unlikely to be much different. They might insist on you paying for an export meter too, which would wipe out much of that income.

[julian]

Thanks for that - that was the number i was looking for.


I have been in a dilemma as to how to run this engine.

*To put a dc generator on the engine, charge a battery bank, and then use an inverter to do the 240v ac stuff.
*To put a 240v ac generator on the engine, and use this directly.
*To put a 3ph generator on the engine, rectify the AC to DC and then run into a grid tie inverter.
 
All of these have different costs, and benefits.  As i see it  -
 
*)Generating in dc >> batteries >> inverter
 
I think this would be quite a good option.  The regulator on the DC alternator (possibly an advanced 3 stage regulator) would keep the batteries charged, present varying load to the engine (so it only used as much fuel as was needed) and the batteries would keep the house power up when the engine was not running.
 
The disadvantages of this are that decent batteries are big money, and that an inverter large enough to power the whole house from DC would also be big money.  Im thinking that the peaks that could be encountered when, the immersion heater is on, someone puts the kettle on, the microwave, etc. all at the same time could be very high, and some discipline would be needed to not overload the inverter, or, as i say, just a lot of money on a real large inverter.
 
 
*)Generating in 240v ac
 
I was all set to get on with this option.  I had a large 240v ac generator lined up, and was going to purchase it.  But then i realised some real flaws -
Swapping between the mains and the engine would result in a power outage.  There would be no way to avoid it on swap over.  It wouldnt simply be a case of connecting the two up before, or quickly swapping over either, as the phase of the AC cycle would match, which could upset a load of stuff.  I dont forsee runnig the engine through the night, so thatlld meen an outage 2x per day. Which would get untennable.  I often leave the cnc machine here on for a week at a time, so as not to loose the origin point between jobs, and i just couldnt do that with outages like that.  And getting a UPS with high enough output would also be problematic.
 
Another real problem with that setup which wasnt immediatly obvious to me - if i oversized the alternator, which is common practice, and the same microwave / kettle / immersion heater scenario as before came in, the alternator would present so much load on the engine that itlld just stall, and cut all the power.  
 
In fact, given that the engine will only to about 2.5kw, even one immersion heater comming on alone would stall it!
 
 
*)So, the 3rd option, which is the one ive gone for, is to grid tie, but this seems to have pros and cons also -
 
The massive advantage is that its all completely automatic.  When the engine is running, the house will take power from the engine. When it stopps, itll take power from the grid.  When the engine is running, but the house load is a bit over the engine output, itll take as much as possible from the engine and make up the rest from the grid.  

However, the feed in is not really an advantage in this case, but more of a disadvantage.  I gather that the way they work (with wind turbines etc) is that they present a load to the generator, of [whatever] kw, and that, then, is how many kw you are drawing all the time.  So far as im aware, this is then fixed - i dont think its based on how much power is actually needed.  So i would have to set the engine up at, say 1.4kw, and run at that all the time, feeding some into the grid sometimes, and taking it at other times.  Which is a bit rubbish, as a unit from the grid would cost about 10p and a unit fed back in would be paid for at 3.1 pence (ignoring the ROCs payments)  So its not like solar FITs where you get paid good money for the feed in units - you get paid rubbish money for them (but you do get ROCs regardless)
 
So, the grid tie option is probably somewhere between the generating at 240vac and generating at 12vdc options with regard to cost, but is very convinient, however, possibly wastefull in terms of generating more power than is needed.  
 
The grid tie option is also not good in power outages.
 
 
I have gone for the grid tie option, as ive got a resonable price on a GTI, and, like i say, its convinient, but it does bother me that the overproduction will, effectivly (on a personal level), be wasting my fuel : (