Serious help required: Legality / definition please business folk.

[MR GUS]

I reported a seller to ebay as I thought they had "potential" to upset the applecart when I received ranting responses from them regarding me leaving them a negative (took 3 days of thought, could have left two)!.
Within 12 hours I have a purchase from the same area, aross the park, several streets away by London (Harrow) standards..
They're out for some multiplied revenge evidently.

OK, last night the same again from another seller within the "area" ...suspicions always arise when I think the address to despatch to is a rented mailbox, ...my suspicions are correct, in fact both are for the same company shop front of London rent-a-box., ..little chance of not being in each others pockets??

SO I call ebay &  evidently they are aware of these businesses "connection" & recommend not to send the goods..
Fine, however this means they have not in ebays eyes done "anything wrong" ..yes, correct says the man.
So ebay won't do anything then, yes correct the man replies...

I point out then the speed he conected the two businesses together he clearly has them flagged as known offenders, but he cannot comment.
They both list similar qty's of listings in a price funnelling effect.
They both use word for word listings
They both are google mail
Their return & contact are both scant & mirror each others e-shops again.
The business details & locations vary on the listings (ie incorrect)

So I get thew ebay chap to send me his name on a message with a title "intent to disruppt account" in order that i've got a named reference for the next stage.

Last night then I got a 3rd "fishy one" ..pretty much as above, same area, sales etc, identical low item bought.

Now the crux, ebay clearly look at fee's as morew important than playing fair when presented with fraud.
How though would you describe legally the other businesses antics in a legal respect when speaking or threatening ebay with legal action & or the police.?

these guy's are out to ruin my reputation in spiteful vengeance, that much is clear.
time spent sussing them out is too long each time I get a "twitch" ..the mail box company (numerous london premises seems to be the big clue, along eith same stock , timeperiod & items each sells, not to mention their appalling feedback.

Ultimately it's threatening behaviour (to me)
out to disrupt, tarnish & ruin.
& means that ebayers are not able to leave honest feedback, if they do are open to harassment & defamation of character.

But I need a good legal definition I can use to speak to someone in the upper echelons of ebay towers to be taken seriously.
Help please.

[rondurrans]

When I had a similar problem (although not with e-bay) I contacted Trading Standards and fair play they were spot on. A good half hour on the phone, some great sentences and terminologies from them sorted out my problem - they have lots of generic letters you could copy and paste from.

Ron

[biff]

its a difficult one gus,
                      we traded on ebay for 2 years and retained our 100 percent feedback but at a cost.there were some people whose personal mental problems clearly came to the surface,one particular character was filmed recieving money from me in a b,n,q car park.he liked cash but when the item was discovered to be faulty and s/h was warned that if he did not replace it ,he would get negative feedback.thats when the phone calls began.
    intrestingly enough,he claimed to have friends on ebay and could do me a lot of damage,my wife and i had to admitt that there must be some truth in that,however when he discovered he had been recorded on the phone he went off the rails completly,one minute threatning and the next almost crying.he was the only person we gave negative feedback too.some of the things he posted were totally untrue,he said he had not been paid,then he said the cheque bounced, he got away with this speil.there was nothing we could do. (we took legal advice)
 this character was no small operator,he seemed to be running a fair sized business,we reported him to the guards and gave details of the problem.the phonecalls stopped(after he recieved the negative feedback he organised through ebay a mediation process wherby i was supposed to have made a mistake and would like to retract the negative feedback,he knew ebay inside out.),ironically he took two other negative hits shortly after that and we relaxed.he is still operating and his feedback is sweet.
    generally speaking we have done very well out of ebay and should not complain but there are a select few who for some unknown reason seem to think they rule the universe.a carefull study of feedback often reveals the untold story.the way they post answers to complaints,(basil fawlty style).
             good luck  biff

[MR GUS]

yes, google maps is very revealing, i'm flagging Middlesex up as fukushima territory currently, I'm in talks with ebay who are sending 3 more advisory emails today, ..but if i don't send out they've done nothing wrong! ..whilst ebay will remove Negs, they have pretty much admitted that persistent offenders don't get thrown off regardless, (but I'll save that for later)

Cheers for the advice all, anymore appreciated.

[Ted]

I'm an ebay virgin so most of what you are saying doesn't mean anything to me I'm afraid, but I would think that 'defamation' covers most of what you are alleging.  

But you seem to be a step before this - in attempting to prevent the defamation from happening in the first place. What you seem to be in the middle of is some sort of 'conspiricy to defraud'. See details in:

http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/site/criminal_justice/defraud.htm and http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/Publications/Documents/conspiracy%20to%20defraud%20final.pdf

You could get carried away here and enjoin eBay as co-conspirators on the basis that they are failing to prevent the conspiracy. You need to get propoer legal advice before embarking on such an action. This will cost you plenty, unfortunately.

Here are a few more relevant links I found using Google:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/community/png-defam.html

http://www.techcult.com/ebay-feedback-could-get-you-sued/

http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/comments/2010/4/1271086641.html/2/20

http://www.inquisitr.com/8194/does-a-negative-online-review-constitute-libel/


Parliament has been discussing changes to the law around defamation (notably including the problems that have affected Simon Singh) and if you want to get into the detail of that then this is a good read regarding the internet:

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/joint-committees/Draft%20Defamation%20Bill/110523%20Defamation%20Transcript%20corrected%20vi.pdf

[MR GUS]

Thanks Ted, "defamation", It was lurking in my head but couldn't find the exit through my mouth!
Appreciated,

Brain Injury is such a pain (long after the pain has gone) ..sometimes akin to how an autistic kid feels I imagine.
I'll chec those Links!
 
many thanks (all)

[Ted]

You might, in the first instance, try contacting these people too: http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/

Possibly they have experience in the specifics of eBay - for example: http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/fraud-az-online-shopping-fraud - even if that doesn't extend to the scenario you find yourself in.

[MR GUS]

UPDATE:
I forgot to check the paypal payment for the latest suspect purchase,
when cross referenced it is the same person as I sent out to yesterday (rented mailbox) so whilst they may have the nous to use separate anonymous rented mailboxes, they paid via another paypal account with the same name as yesterday.

This could be enough to tip the balance as to what action is taken against them.

[Antman]

I thought Paypal addresses must be "Confirmed" to meet Paypal protection conditions - which to my mind would specifically exclude PO Box numbers or mailboxes - and mean that if payment is only accepted via Paypal then at least they are laible for any default on the third party...

Antman

[biff]

slow down gus,
              i took legal advice,it was exellent advice, my case was airtight but at the end of the day the bloke in question could slip sideways and plead poverty.with that in mind i decided to just let it go.plus,,his rantings and ravings were not something that goes with a sound mind,in other words he was a headcase.
  you really need to be carefull,
                                      biff

[MR GUS]

I hear you Biff, & understand, i'm referring to action ebay would take if pushed, merely a slap on the wrist anything else would have to come from elsewhere.
The "gentleman"  isn't too clever & i'm merely loging fresh info in for ebay to cross reference, another cross reference has arisen, it's clearcut, however what his next move is open to question.
it's a waiting game!

[Ivan]

I hate ebay. They have such a bad attitude towards their customers - ie the sellers on ebay. Feedback is laughable, and should be dumped altogether. It's no longer possible for sellers to leave anything other than positive feedback for buyers - what a joke. So buyers can behave badly, illegally etc, without any fear of comeback.

I had one example just a few days ago. I sold 4 items to someone in Italy. I charged only about £5 shipping. He claimed the items were not received, but when I offered to send a replacement, he refused saying he wanted his money back. Now I know there's nothing I can do in this situation, but ebay asked me to provide proof of postage (I have this but not a tracking number). The buyer must have thought I had a tracking number, and suddenly changed his story to say the items were spoiled and that's why he wanted a refund. Claiming goods never received is a typical scam on ebay, as unscrupulous buyers know that ebay ALWAYS refunds their payment. So this guy basically tries to steal about £14 from me, and having been caught out, leaves me negative feedback. I now have to plead with ebay to have it removed, and they'll argue they don't like to get involved etc etc, and each time I email a reply, someone else from ebay will respond without having read anything of the situation.

The problem is that ebay isn't registered as a UK company, so it's very difficult and expensive to prosecute them for any wrong-doings. And because they're not UK, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading etc won't touch them. Ebay are big enough to have worked out every trick in the book. In addition, Trading Standards are really there to protect consumers, so if you're selling on ebay, they'll class you as a business and therefore the problem is outside their remit.

I have 9 negative feedbacks on ebay - 2 from a UK competitor who uses aliases to buy my goods, claim they're not received so he gets a refund then he clones them and sells in direct competition - these were left when I refunded his money and refused to send the items to his address, having , 5 from a single transaction from a European competitor (actually, as I posted a 'response' stating he was a competitor using dirty tricks, he sent an apology and asked ebay to remove the negative feedback but ebay said they don't intervene after 1month), 1 from someone who said he didn't want to have to download the instructions and wanted a paper copy (he could have asked!), and 1 from the guy that committed fraud but got caught out.

A couple of years ago, I was paying over £1000 per month to ebay in fees - I would have expect to get treated better. The best thing you can do is withdraw your business from ebay - which is what I did (90% of it, anyway). But they know they have a monopoly hence their attitude towards their customers.

[MR GUS]

Yes, I agree with you on all fronts!
for any suspect addresses, spend 5 minutes with google maps & route map sus no1 to sus no 2.
ebay will do stuff if you get the right person, i've had to be escalated a few times, but to be frank all this freedom allowed to shonky buyers is a disgrace, & conversely the truly atrocious sellers get away with murder (a river of red negs & still operating).
Never speak to anyone other than Dublin call centre.

[dhaslam]

Police  are not properly equipped to deal with  online crime.   In many ways it is like the drug  situation, police were not assigned until drug related crime was out of control.    I don't think that ebay can do much on their own, they don't have the authority to  investigate individuals, all they can do is  de-register them.

[Antman]

I have 9 negative feedbacks on ebay - 2 from a UK competitor who uses aliases to buy my goods, claim they're not received so he gets a refund then he clones them and sells in direct competition - these were left when I refunded his money and refused to send the items to his address, having , 5 from a single transaction from a European competitor (actually, as I posted a 'response' stating he was a competitor using dirty tricks, he sent an apology and asked ebay to remove the negative feedback but ebay said they don't intervene after 1month), 1 from someone who said he didn't want to have to download the instructions and wanted a paper copy (he could have asked!), and 1 from the guy that committed fraud but got caught out.

Ivan

Add the aliases to your blocked bidder list http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/manage_bidders_ov.html#block

Anyone who has ever caused me hassle goes on there - stops them bidding again. If they complain, just tell them why.

Ebay has it all their own way - all the rulkes are in their favour - and is no longer the on-line car boot sale it once was. The tie-up with Paypal is just another excuse to grab more fees - although I have to admit I much prefer the security of the 'blind payment' method.

Antman