Another Devil's Advocate FITS Installation Scenario

[Ivan]

My neighbour has a roof in woeful condition. It's had that stuff applied to the outside of the slates to get away without repairing a roof in desperate need of repair, so you wouldn't really want to do a PV installation there. However, I have some spare space on my roof.

If I were to fit around 3kW of PV to my roof, and feed it into my neighbour's house / his meter etc, would there be any problem with him claiming the FITs for the PV on my roof at the <4kW rate? (Or more to the point, I would be claiming the FITs and he'd get the free electricity).

The DNO won't let me fit any more PV to my own system, so this is an alternative option for me.

[regen]

Hi Ivan,

Depends on DNO reason for refusal. My DNO western power told me the max they would allow me was 6kw (4kw pv existing and 2kw hydro (add on)  under G83 because higher generation may result in high voltages into our neighbours property as we are only properties on the transformer. They said i could have more but would have to pay for a new transformer - around £5000!

The DNO is surely not interested in the position of the panels - only the capacity and the point at which the generated electricty enters the grid. Currently any house can install up to 4kw under a g83 and the registered installer has 1 month to inform the DNO what would happen if the DNO refused it retrospectively?  However your senario may not be permissible under a FIT - guess you would have to ask -Good luck!!

Regen

[Ted]

The DNO will be one issue, but the main one would be OFGEM.

It all depends on what 'address' is put on the paperwork.

[MN]

What would stop you ground mounting them – then once everything was signed off – moving them a little bit...onto the roof?

MN

[EccentricAnomaly]

Regen, in doing their calculations as to whether Ivan can install more won't the DNO have taken into account the fact that the neighbour could install up to the 16 A limit? That is, they would have refused him permission even if there was a little over 16 A of spare capacity available on the transformer because if they let the spare capacity go below 16 A and the neighbour then installs a generator it'd be up to the DNO to pay for the required reinforcement.

[Richard Owen]

Would it not be your neighbour's installation?

Surely it would be his MPan number and his meter the electricity was moving through?

It doesn't matter where the panels are. It matters where the meter is.

[Ivan]

Sorry, I don't think I made myself clear.

Yes, in effect it would be my neighbour's installation, and it would be his mpan number and the installation would be registered at his address. However, the FITs would be registered to me, and the cheques posted to my address.

The technicality I was trying to establish, is whether you are allowed to claim FITs for PV feeding into your property, but located on another. I imagine it might be a difficult area as legislation wasn't written with this type of thing in mind.

I'm not worried about the DNO. We are allowed 16A/phase for each property (although technically, the DNO has the right to force you to disconnect if they can't handle all the power being generated in a particular street). I'm wondering whether there's any problem registering for FITs on this basis.

[Ted]

Sounds like you've just invented a new way of dealing with FiTs - 'meter rental' - as opposed to 'roof rental'.

You would both need to enter into a lease agreement so that you had use of your neighbour's meter for a 25 year period.

This would need to stand so that, in 20 years time say, when both you and the present neighbour had moved, both the new occupants could continue to benefit from the arrangement.

The simplest way of handling the FiTs part would be for your neighbour to register the system with his supplier and name you as the 'nominated recipient'.

[GavinA]

I think this would be pretty dodgy ground, as I'm pretty sure that it's not just the MPAN that counts, but also the plant location - the plant in this case definitely being the inverter itself, and possibly being the array as well.

I can't actually remember if this is the case for FIT's or not, but I'm sure it is for DNO / G83 purposes.

If it's not the case for fits itself, then I guess you could do a g83 stage 2 application for connection, then do the install and claim the fits at the under 4kWp rate so it could be worth it, but when you say the DNO won't let you fit any more on your roof, it doesn't sound like they'd just say yes to you installing it on your roof and connecting it via your neighbours meter really.

I suppose you could maybe install the panels on your roof and the inverter in your neighbours loft, but running AC cables from one house to the next seems bad enough, running DC cables across is entering 'wouldn't touch it with a barge pole' territory IMO.

[Justme]

As most properties are wired from the grid in alternating phases will this cause a problem with the equipotential zones & array earthing on your roof & inverter earthing & zones on his house?

Could end up with some one on the roof using a power tool from your mains being in the zone for next door.

[Ivan]

Ted, I think you've hit the nail on the head! I don't fancy writing the lease agreement much, but I guess I need to get something on paper.

GavinA, This is what I was worried about. I guess the best thing to do is to file a notification to the DNO in advance of the installation, making it clear where the panels are located. Then they have the chance to ignore it or kick up a fuss.

JustMe, Good point. I'm no electrician, so I don't know a huge amount about Earthing, but I presume that even if the Earth is bonded to the Neutral, the Neutral will be the same regardless of which phase each house is on. Locating the inverter next door would appear to solve the problem, as well as any potential DNO issues. I certainly wasn't planning to Earth the framework (You'd only do this if you used transformerless inverters), as there's no benefit to Earthing as far as DC is concerned...it will only attract the lightning!

[Ivan]

I visited a pair of factories in Cardiff today - similar situation, I think. One has metal roof, the other asbestos. It would be safer and easier to fit 2 x 50kW installations on one factory (each with different meters), to avoid messing with the asbo.