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Author Topic: Hybrid Automobile Engines  (Read 1154 times)
goldenfuel
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« on: September 05, 2011, 05:19:57 PM »

Would you buy a vehicle with a hybrid engine system?
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Save Green On Anything That Moves
martin
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 05:24:00 PM »

I feel it apposite to point out that we have a nil tolerance to spam policy.......... whistlie

We're also UK based.........
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Unpaid volunteer administrator and moderator (not employed by Navitron) - Views expressed are my own - curmudgeonly babyboomer! - http://www.farmco.co.uk
Quakered
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2011, 05:18:30 PM »

 Wouldn’t be seen dead in a Toyota Pious or its imitators – far more sustainable to drive a small diesel. (says the man with two petrol fuelled cars…..)
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Patrick

No, Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford
camillitech
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2011, 09:46:41 PM »

Would you buy a vehicle with a hybrid engine system?

No but I do hope to be driving a hybrid boat in 2013  http://www.whfp.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=746&Itemid=1 well for an hour or so a day anyway  Grin

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

12kw Lister
11m turbine tower
10 hundred ah 48v battery bank
900' pennstock
8kw woodburner
7kw Lister
6 bladed Rutland
50w of solar
4 and a half Kw inverter
3kw Lister
2 hydro turbines
and a Proven in a pear tree :-)

Raasay, 57 27 537 N 06
renewablejohn
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2011, 09:59:37 PM »

Yes hopefully thermal solar and biomass steam engine.
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spaces
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2011, 10:12:45 PM »

Yes if it was efficient - in-hub electric motors, with a tiny petrol engine running a generator to power them. Batteries limited to starting generator engine. Current hybrids are nothing short of tax-dodgers, no matter how nicely made and expensively marketed. They consume more energy than a conventional oil burner of a similar size, while creating a whole new meaning to 'holier than thou'. Equivalent of building chimney stacks higher so the p'lution blows over someone else.   
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Quakered
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2011, 03:43:18 PM »

What a lot of PR greenwash from the ferry company! Nothing very new about diesel electric power. This has been used in submarines since the 1930s.

The claim of 20% savings is probably down to the VERY slow speed of 9 knots!

The latest Type 45 Destroyers in the RN also have electric propulsion generated by either diesel or gas turbines as will the new carriers....
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Patrick

No, Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford
camillitech
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2011, 08:51:59 PM »

What a lot of PR greenwash from the ferry company! Nothing very new about diesel electric power. This has been used in submarines since the 1930s.

The claim of 20% savings is probably down to the VERY slow speed of 9 knots!

The latest Type 45 Destroyers in the RN also have electric propulsion generated by either diesel or gas turbines as will the new carriers....

My fault really Patrick for posting a link to a newspaper, for we all know what tosh is in them  Grin As you are probably aware if you have a knowledge of any subject and that subject comes to the attention of the media. Just look at the pap the torygraph prints about RE.

The 20% saving is not a result of the new ferry traveling at 9knots as the current one only travels at 8  Wink

'Diesel/battery' submarines as opposed to 'diesel electric' (big difference) have been around since the turn of the last century long before 1930, remember how they brought Britain to her Knees in the WW1 so we know that technology works just fine.

The RN is way behind with 'diesel electric' propulsion as the Russians built a steam turbine 'diesel electric' tanker in 1903 and the yanks a battleship in 1928.

However you're completely missing the point, a ship has to have enough power to cope with severe weather and emergency's consequently much of it's machinery for much of the time is running at light loads. This is wasteful of fuel, noisy, polluting and most of all bad for the diesel machinery.  A diesel engine should ideally be run at 50 to 75% load to get the most life and efficiency out of it. Running at lower outputs may mean some fuel saving but this is more than offset by a condition called 'bore glazing' which increases oil consumption, decrease compression, and causes the engine to leak oil due to increased 'blow by'.

We overcome this by applying resistive heaters to load them up, as without them a 50kw genny would only be running at around 10Kw on passage. How sensible is that  Huh the diesel hybrid system would combine several smaller generators a battery bank and two smaller main engines than would normally be required by Lloyds or the MCA.

This PDF explains a system currently in use on a Dolphin class tug in LA, http://www.foss.com/pdfs/FOSSCarolynDorothy_apr09_pmm.pdf the spec was to come up with a hybrid system that would fit in a current hull design and still provide the 5000hp required. Aspin Kemp http://www.aka-group.net/ and Xero point http://www.xeropointenergy.com/ came up with the solution that you see in the document and three or four years on, all who sail on the Carolyn Dorothy are well impressed, so much so that they are converting one of the other tugs to hybrid propulsion and predict 100,000 gallons (OK that's US gallons) fuel savings a year.

I was fortunate enough to meet some of the team involved in the development a couple of years ago when they came to monitor our power usage http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/riveting-part-2/ unfortunately one of the posts seems to have vanished  Cry

This is not, as the pap in the newspaper suggests the Toyota Pious of the sea, but then that's why I never read a paper, they're full of 5h1te and people generally only read the ones that confirm their own prejudices. It is a very clever, if not complex method of reducing both emissions and running costs.

I'm not going to argue about the 'greenwash' of wind turbines, PV and tidal power to charge it up overnight because in my book that is just what it is. However the ferry is berthed in a windy spot very close to a strong tidal stream so perhaps it's not as daft as it seems. You have to remember that when the current one was built in 1986 Margret Thatcher was still in power and the $100 barrel would have been unimaginable, who knows what it will be in 26 years time when this new ferry will be only 75% through its life cycle. 

Yes the batteries will need replacing, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH but I for one am looking forward to a quieter, quicker and cleaner ferry  Grin

Cheers, Paul 

 

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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

12kw Lister
11m turbine tower
10 hundred ah 48v battery bank
900' pennstock
8kw woodburner
7kw Lister
6 bladed Rutland
50w of solar
4 and a half Kw inverter
3kw Lister
2 hydro turbines
and a Proven in a pear tree :-)

Raasay, 57 27 537 N 06
Tigger
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 08:53:35 AM »

Hey Martin, 4m 3s to send out a potential Spam warning, you're getting slower   Wink
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30 tubes, south facing gable wall (Navitron Fornax Trial System).  Hunter Herald 8, integrated boiler hooked up with Oil Boiler via Dunsley Neutraliser.  Scrounging fire wood wherever possible Smiley
renewablejohn
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 09:22:25 AM »

Paul

I cannot believe they would go down the battery route. I would have thought a steam accumulator was far more practical especially if you had oil cooled diesel engines like deutz and exhaust heat recovery. Fireless steam engine technology has been used at chemical works for over a century
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M
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 09:26:05 AM »

Paul

I cannot believe they would go down the battery route. I would have thought a steam accumulator was far more practical especially if you had oil cooled diesel engines like deutz and exhaust heat recovery. Fireless steam engine technology has been used at chemical works for over a century

Didn't something like that appear a few years ago for refrigerated lorries. Not sure if it got off the ground, but the idea was that steam power could be used to run the freezer units for rigids or artics, to reduce the electrical load of the trucks engine. Sounded like a very good idea at the time, but can't remember much about it now.

Edit. Here we go, sort of what I remember

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/2321179.newhaven_companys_steampowered_idea/


Martyn.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 09:29:05 AM by M » Logged
dhaslam
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 10:34:14 AM »

It could also be possible to an absorption refrigerator. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

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renewablejohn
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2011, 01:30:13 PM »

Paul

I cannot believe they would go down the battery route. I would have thought a steam accumulator was far more practical especially if you had oil cooled diesel engines like deutz and exhaust heat recovery. Fireless steam engine technology has been used at chemical works for over a century

Didn't something like that appear a few years ago for refrigerated lorries. Not sure if it got off the ground, but the idea was that steam power could be used to run the freezer units for rigids or artics, to reduce the electrical load of the trucks engine. Sounded like a very good idea at the time, but can't remember much about it now.

Edit. Here we go, sort of what I remember

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/2321179.newhaven_companys_steampowered_idea/


Martyn.

Unfortunately gone into administration see hear

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/101207/cpwee.ob8-k.html

Pity really as I liked their steam wankel engine which I thought was a better product than entering the cut throat haulage business.
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