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Author Topic: End Of Gas Heating ?  (Read 3545 times)
martin
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« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2011, 10:00:07 AM »

That may or may not be the case, but there's no getting away from the fact that fracking does introduce an extremely toxic cocktail of chemicals, and can (and does) render water supplies unsafe.
As to the possibility of finding "a completely unbiased work of science....." in the context of multinationals making gazillions out of a highly questionable practice is somewhere in the region of snowballs in hell! (If there is any "scientific" work done, it will be slanted to bamboozle a gullible public into believing it's totally harmless, and usually that there's "no proven causal link", just like tobacco, GMOs, nuclear power, pesticides....) Governments don't have the will/funding to do independent research, and as we've seen time and again, the companies have their stooges embedded in government to ensure they get their way (Caroline Spelman, for 15 years a GM lobbyist for instance)... whistlie
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brackwell
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« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2011, 10:08:02 AM »

Mostie,

I am the same but i think that time of change has been forced upon me.  I have a feeling that a lot of the unreliability issues are concerned with combi boilers and not standard ones -to clever by half-its always the electrics -like modern cars !  Can anyone confirm or deny this thought.

Ken
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« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2011, 10:13:51 AM »

Some good news for nuclear generation.

I remember reading in New Scientist some time ago, that a possible solution for the safe disposal of waste may be on the cards. Strangely it comes off the back of the cancellation of the Yukka Mountain Project, where the Americans have been hollowing out a mountain for storage. Unfortunately, neither they nor the Swedes (I think) could design a container that would last long enough for safe storage, around 10,000 years or so. I believe they were looking at a copper capsule.

So, the Americans revisited a technology that they had dismissed about 15 years earlier, deep drilling. Thanks to deep sea drilling technology breakthroughs (I guess something good had to come out of it), they can now 'simply' drill a 500mm hole 5 kilometres or more deep into suitable bedrock. Fill it 2k's with capsulated waste then top off with 3k's of material. The material will eventually begin to leach after 1000's of years, but this will slowly radiate the rock, much in the same way as nature once did.

About 80% of America is suitable. This idea also removes the associated natural disaster and terrorist risks of a large storage centre.

The next problem is fuel shortages especially now in America as cheap fuel from decommissioned weapons is now running down. Hopefully the relatively low reserves of known deposits will be be boosted with 'proper' Uranium exploration, which interestingly has never really been undertaken.

I'm not a huge fan of nuclear, but if the fuel cost remains fairly negligible, and disposal of waste becomes acceptably safe, then at least there is an alternative to FF's, even if it does leave a nasty taste in the back of your mouth, figuratively that is.

Quite where this leaves us with gas central heating, I don't know. I guess the previous comments of simple electric heat and loads of insulation are very sensible for new builds, whilst making do with what you have for older properties.

The next 50 years will be very interesting, by which time hopefully my descendants should all have a 'Mr Fussion' at home!

Martyn.
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martin
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« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2011, 10:24:00 AM »

No costs associated with nukes have ever been "negligible", nor will they ever be..........
To be frank, it's all rather reminiscent of an alcoholic making excuses for not giving up (I'll knock the whisky off, and just have Guinness and Valium), and just more excuses for not investing in genuine sustainable energy and making the cuts in consumption we desperately need...
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« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2011, 10:49:35 AM »

No costs associated with nukes have ever been "negligible", nor will they ever be..........
To be frank, it's all rather reminiscent of an alcoholic making excuses for not giving up (I'll knock the whisky off, and just have Guinness and Valium), and just more excuses for not investing in genuine sustainable energy and making the cuts in consumption we desperately need...

Sorry Martin, not very well written. What I meant was the cost of the uranium fuel, can continue to be to be negligible. Obviously the cost of the plant is astronomical, and any leaks or disasters will negate the benefits of nuclear.

The benefits of renewables and nuclear, is that the fuel cost element is free, or next to free. So the challenge is bringing the cost of the infrastructure down, whilst conventional fuel infrastructure has bottomed out and fuel prices are rising.

Unfortunately the economic argument for switching future investment into renewables could be lost if people spot the opportunity for cheap hydrocarbons in the future. I believe that most people on the street want to help the environment, but unfortunately not if it is at substantial cost to themselves.

Martyn.
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martin
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« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2011, 11:03:19 AM »

I really can't see nuke fuel ever being at a low price - demand is going through the roof, the stuff is running out. the nuclear pr machine has done it's work, sufficient governments are being suckered into it so that prices must inevitably skyrocket, so we are left with good old-fashioned real renewables as being the only sensible long-term solution....
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brackwell
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« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2011, 11:08:17 AM »

Most people could not care a fig about the enviroment-yes everybody else should change.  Hitting people in the pocket is all that matters and that is why the government is slewing the prices with carbon credits,ROCs,FITS and..  .  Sad but its the only way that works.

Ken
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« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2011, 11:34:48 AM »

I really can't see nuke fuel ever being at a low price - demand is going through the roof, the stuff is running out. the nuclear pr machine has done it's work, sufficient governments are being suckered into it so that prices must inevitably skyrocket, so we are left with good old-fashioned real renewables as being the only sensible long-term solution....

I do agree with you on a renewable future, and am concerned that I may appear to be arguing in favour of nuclear, but the truth about the fuel cost, is that even if it was to skyrocket to 50 times the current cost for uranium ore, this would still have little impact on the output cost of a a nuclear KWh. The processing costs, plant costs, running costs and associated decommissioning costs are where practically all the generation costs are incurred. If ore costs rose substantially, then (and I'm guessing) I would expect large deposits to be discovered as very little thorough exploration has been done so far, and I believe some of the 'poorer' mines were shut down when weapons grade material became available.

Anyway, all that is arbitrary, as renewables can in the long term do the job, as long as fuel costs remain high. I would like to think that a brave government would heavily tax any cheap gas, in order to maintain prices, and use the money to subsidise renewables so that costs could continue to be reduced. However whilst I would like to believe that, the opportunity for all parties to win votes by promising to reduce environmental taxes is too scary to ignore.

As I said, the next 50 years will be interesting, lets just hope they are sensible and pleasant.

Martyn.
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Mostie
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« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2011, 10:16:29 PM »

Mostie,

I am the same but i think that time of change has been forced upon me.  I have a feeling that a lot of the unreliability issues are concerned with combi boilers and not standard ones -to clever by half-its always the electrics -like modern cars !  Can anyone confirm or deny this thought.

Ken, I would agree, best to go for the 'least amount of moving parts '(and electronics) .  fingers crossed!


I wonder how all this is helping Paul & Rona  Grin
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