Ideas on how to stop warm air going up open stairway

[Stoozy]

Hi All- thoughts are now turning to winter and the best way to conserve energy.  Several years ago we converted our partial basement into a kitchen and dining\living area.  We live on a slope so the rear of the property is open to the garden and the front is in the slope (if that makes sense).  So we lowered the ceiling fitted an open stairway and thought great.  However the rear of the house is north facing and gets practically no solar gain.  The void above the dining room ceiling is uninsulated and then there is a vented void and then a concrete floor (bison block).  There are large french style door and window panels going into the garden (3m x 2m).  The only good thing going for it is that we have had the cavity wall filled and the new suspended floor was fibre glass insulated.

So in summer it is cool.  In winter it is bloody cold.  The kitchen and dining are all open plan.  The dining area is 3m X 5m x 2.3m High.  The stairs going up to the rest of the house are in this room.  Off this room is the kitchen via 2m wide opening.  The kitchen has a concrete tiled floor (kingspan under it for insulation).  Kitchen is about 3m x 2.5m x 2.4 high. We have a large (1200 x 600mm) double radiator of about 2000 W in the dining room that basically heats the air which then disappears up the open stairway.  The kitchen area ceiling again has been lowered but above it is the underside of a insulated wooden floor.  The kitchen has a another 2000 W radiator.  The kitchen isn't too bad but the dining room loses heat like a ... well something that loses heat really well.

So you may be thinking - you idiot why didn't you think more about insulation etc.... and i would agree.  Knowing what I know now more thought would have gone into it. Hindsight and all that.

So what are my options.

1. Block up open stairway (I've attached a pic).
2. Block up open stairway and put in door.
3. Leave open but fit a cornice on the ceiling to deflect warm air back down.
4. Fit some sort of fan to blow warm air back down.
5. Block off vent above ceiling.
6. Leave vent and somehow get access and fit insulation.
7. Insulate ceiling from inside similar to what I have done in my other project but without ripping off the plaster board. http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14847.0.html

Any comments and ideas would be welcome.

thanks

Stuart

[JohnS]

What is the purpose of the vented space above the ceiling?

Where is the heat going? 

Upstairs to the rest of the house - not too bad, it will need less heating

Down through the floor - not too much if you insulated it - maybe thicker carpet, high tog underlay (try cloud 9 website)?

Out of the walls - but you cavity filled them

Out of the vented space - close the vent? but have an extractor fan in the kitchen when required. You can get single point heat exchange fans ie the outgoing air warms the incoming air.

Are the windows double glazed, draught proof etc.  Consider warm thick curtains going to the floor with a bubble wrap lining.

Consider internal wall insulation.  The dining room is big enough.  Include the wall above the ceiling and under the upstairs floor, i.e the void.

[Stoozy]

Hi John - the vented space was created when the ceiling was lowered.  The vent was originally there.  The heat is going upstairs but the rest of the house doesn't need the heat.  I have a wbs on the next floor.  Windows are all double glazed and we have thick floor length curtains.

Thinking about it the vent probably isn't needed anymore.

ta for comments

[Richard Owen]

2.

[M]

Wifey and I have something similar, open stairway going up to converted loft room.

Spent a lot of time deciding on open or boxed in, when we fitted the stairs in.

Simple solution was to fit a curtain rail along ceiling next to stairs, then wifey and mum in law made a set of heavy curtains with a thermal lining. Curtains go up when weather declines, around Oct/Nov and come down around March (at the same time we lift/lay lino over hallway stone floor). Work extremely well, if you pop arm around side when heating is on the temp difference is shocking.

Alongside spindles, don't need to go to floor, just make a triangular curtain (possibly with some thin cardboard inside) and attach some cloth strips to the back, these are then tied round 3 or 4 spindle bottoms.

Just a suggestion.

Martyn.

[stannn]

I have a similar problem with major convection currents being set up by warm air rising from the wood-burning stove and cold air descending. However, closing the 3 bedroom doors on the upstairs landing has solved the problem.
Stan

[clivejo]

Basically anything that will stop the air circulating would help, such as a curtain at the bottom (or top) of the stairs.  Or maybe both just to be sure!!

Also, cold air falling can be just as annoying as hot air rising.  I remember one particular house and it had an inch gap under a door, the cold air created a breeze that would skin a cat!  One of those sausage snakes done the trick!

http://l.yimg.com/a/feeds/us/grn/green_daily_news/long-draft-snake-md.jpg

[JohnS]

 I have a wbs on the next floor. 

ta for comments

Perhaps the solution would be to move the wood burning stove downstairs to the dining/living area.  Heat rising upstairs would be used.

Why do you need it upstairs if you are living downstairs?

[Stoozy]

Hi All - thanks for the replies. I think we will try the easiest option first by putting up a curtain as suggested by Martyn. 

John - Yes the best place for the WBS is on the lowest floor but unfortunately the chimney stack does not go all the way down to the bottom level (remember it was originally just a basement).  I did investigate boring a whole down through the blockwork support for the chimney but it was just not working out.  The amount of effort and cost was not worth it, especially as the stove has a boiler and all the associated pipework would need to move as well.

cheers
Stuart

[biff]

yeah  heay,,
         the curtain is your man, but,,but maybe you could do better. when the curtain is up,hang 2l2 from the ceiling,right round the stairwell and trap it on the ground, this will stop the heat loss and the curtain will give it an air of respectability,,,,,,gawwwwwwwd im smugly clever,,,,,
                     biff

[Stoozy]

biff - that sounds a great idea - won't that look a bit like a pole dancers pole (if I understand it right).  I did say I'd try most things apart from plastering however pole dancing falls into the same category.

[biff]

methink perhaps it vear toward the other extreme,
                     shades of perkins shadow across the curtain in hitchcocks,physico,. you could have some creepy music from that film playing in the background,you would forget all about poledancing,anyway ,my granny advised me to stay away from such places where poledancers work,she said it would end in blindness.and as well as that you dont get poledancers in ireland apart from the ones who work for the esb.
                                                                                                               biff

[M]

Hi All - thanks for the replies. I think we will try the easiest option first by putting up a curtain as suggested by Martyn. 

Smug mode engaged.


I've only been to a pole dancing club once. I didn't like it, I fell off twice.

It was much harder than I expected - I think that's why I fell off twice. 

Martyn.

[Ivan]

We use a curtain at the bottom of the stairs to our converted attic (but we have a solid side rather than spindles) which goes up in winter. It makes a big difference, even though it's not a thermal one. Last winter we reinsulated the roof (warm roof construction), which seems to have solved the heatloss problem altogether, so no real need for the curtain now.