Pump recommendations - what works, what doesn't?

[SimonHa]

I have a couple of IBCs collecting rainwater and a loft tank which I need to pump the water up to (~7m head). The question of what pump to use comes up from time to time, but is often lost in the discussion.

If would be great if people with pumped rainwater systems could please summarise here:

• make of pump & voltage
• if it's used to fill a header tank (e.g. in loft) or directly to outlets (e.g. WC cisterns)
• height it has to pump the water to & bore of majority of pipe used to get it there
• reliability / noise / filtering used
• approx price / whether they would recommend

Note: telling us about pumps that didn't work for whatever reason are equally useful!

Thanks in advance,

Simon
PS. if we get a few responses to this perhaps we can make the post sticky as it must be one of the trickier questions that comes up for rainwater?

[clockmanFR]

Try this link,  http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14537.0.html My grey water pumps are 12v running of PV panels.

[SimonHa]

Try this link,  http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14537.0.html My grey water pumps are 12v running of PV panels.

Thanks - yes, I saw that already. So your pump is a 12V "Shurflo, model Piranha" and pumps only to a 3m head? It's a bilge pump or one like these: http://www.shurflo.com/marine-products/marine-pumps/livewell-pumps/piranha-livewell-pumps/default.html? I've had a look at some Shurflo - they seem to range in price from £50 to £150 (does anyone spend £150 on a pump just for rainwater?! That's a lot of water to save...). What size pipe do you use - does it matter? (maybe not if not going very high).

I also saw Iain was using some quite large 240V Machine Mart pumps here: http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2960.0.html and petertc had a 12V pump (not Shurflo but maybe the one from Gale Force Marine - can't find that post again just at the moment). You can easily get Whale 12V caravan pumps but I'm assuming they're way too small?

Hence my idea of trying to get a list of pumps together in one place...

[al_uk]

I use the 12.5L one from here.

http://www.galeforcemarine.com/pumps.asp

Pumps directly to appliances, no header tank. 44,000 L pumped so far in just over a year.

Actual throughput is 7.5 L/m once the in line filter and piping has taken its toll.

[Contadino]

I'd like to contribute, but I can't remember the brand or model number of my pump. It's mains, sits 5m down in the cistern (7m below the point where water enters the house), operated by a pressure switch, and cost €550. In terms of reliability, it was installed 2 years ago and has been trouble free.

Would I recommend it? Well, I'd prefer to have a low voltage pump that I could run off a battery bank, but other than that, yes....if I could remember the brand/model number. 

[clockmanFR]

SimonHa, I had written a whole more below but it just went,

Mine are just standard 600l 12V Shurflo, model Piranha bilge pumps, but the 18mm output pipe then goes up to blue MDPE 25mm water pipe. Tight 45 degree joints are a no no, as they just slow the flow rate.
I am allways keen on prices and at the best quality, so the Pump is cheap, the MDPE (screwfix) and MDPE fittings/connections are also cheap.
And its also minimal power consumption that's important to me.

I use 12v DC bilge pumps designed for continuous immersion in boats, (shurflo, model Piranha, flow rates to suit) some come with float valves attached, or attach the float valve accordingly. They will pump anything, oily/muddy water, watersnails etc etc.
Mine have been in constant use for well over 5 years, i use solar panels to power 4.
Only drawback is their head (lift height) max, depends on model, is only 3 meters.

Pic, shows tower at 7meter head height with a 1500 litre tank inside, halfway up is one of my in-line pump systems and tank. We have 2 foul/sewer water systems, the 3 reed beds for all grey water, roof rainwater etc, the Toilet and kitchen waste goes to a separate 5000 litre septic tank.

[SimonHa]

Great thanks clockman. Would you say yours is like this:
http://www.shurflo.com/marine-products/marine-pumps/bilge-pumps/shurflo-380-1000-gph-bilge-pumps/default.html or this: http://www.shurflo.com/marine-products/marine-pumps/livewell-pumps/piranha-livewell-pumps/default.html? Interesting about the head - looking at your pic from the pond to the top of the tank is more than 3m though? Or is it just the boat at the end of the pond/reservoir that makes it look bigger

Thanks to all so far. I've still got an account on the Navitron Wiki so when we've got a few I'll summarise them in a table for future reference, so keep 'em coming!

Simon

[clockmanFR]

From the water in the pond to the tank inflow is 7m.
So one pump in the spring and pond, one in-line pump in the building, and another in-line pump half way up the tower in that white box in the pic.
Yes, to the Bilge pumps and Yes to the fancy bilge with pipe connections. All the body's unscrew so if you do have a problem all the bits are interchangeable.
The boat is a 17ft offshore day fisher National Trust relic, they had to get rid of it because of H&S, and it had to be out of UK distraction so there it sits for the boys to play in.

[Iain]

Hi
I use 2 pumps:-

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/ceb-102-1in-230v-centrifugal-water-pum
This one fills my header tank in my shed from the IBC's below. Pumps about 2.5 mts and has been in use for about 5 years with no problems. A float switch and relay switch it as the header tank level drops.


http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/tam120-11-2in-230v-centrifugal-water-pum
This one pumps the water from the house level up to the IBC's in the shed. I use :-  http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/float-switch-230v-2m-cable?da=1&TC=RV-051040000 to operate a contactor to switch the pump. Been in use for 5 years but I have had to replace the start capacitor.

My system
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2960.0.html

Iain

[AndrewA]

I pump water up from ground level to a couple of storage tanks in the loft, about 6m with 22mm supply to the pump and up to the first floor and 15mm for the rest. (I put 15mm in first but would have liked to change it, but the top half is not worth the effort)

For about 3 years I used a submersible pump something like

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/search/filter/submersible-pumps-clean-water/type/any/module/shopcategory/page/1

It was bought from Machinemart and I think it was a Clarke, it was very cheap and broke after 3 years.

I have now replaced it with Clarke CEB102 (link in post above). Glad to hear it works for 5 year. The pump is in the garage and is a little annoying when on, but cannot be heard through the cavity wall in the rest of the house.

The pump is run controlled by a min and max float valve in the top tank and one in the bottom tank, with the aim of not running the pump for very short intervals. As I have PV, there is a timer which only lets the pump work between 10 and 14 GMT.

To filter the water I use a mesh 50 filter with a stop cock ball as a float, for a cost of less than 20 quid

http://aspw.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18_40&products_id=409

[vstar]

I looked around several pumps when I built by RWH system. I ended up with a "De Lux" pump built by Comet Pumpen, a German company which builds pumps for the caravan market.

On the plus side -
1) It's a tiny thing, smaller than a Coke can.
2) It will pump a 10 metre head. Mines pumped 8m straight up and another 7 metres horizontally, for nearly three years.
3) The best thing is the price, around than £15 on Ebay.

The minor downsides are -
1) A 20 min duty cycle, mine's on a timer. Two 15 min pumps a day (with a float switch cut-out in the loft header tank) works just fine.
2) Only a 1 metre cable on the pump. Being submerged at the bottom of a 1500 litre tank, this was too short. I soldered a 20 metre extension to it, and covered the joint with a couple of layers of good quality silicone mastic. It's been submerged (on and off depending on the water level in the tank) for nearly three years and still going strong.
3) Whilst the specs say it will pump dry for 20mins without damage, it won't pump dry for 45mins. Take my word for it...

All round, an excellent piece of German engineering...
Lee

[trubble]

2 off IBCs here, under the floor, with a good 6 metres to go to the header tank in the loft. 20 metres of 15mm plastic to get up and along to the loft.
The Galeforce marine link looks the same as the pump I have - caravan/boat 12v type, with an inbuilt pressure switch.
It's good because it has a built in non return valve as well as the pressure switch - switch works at 1 bar (I think!) so when the ballfloat valve on the header tank opens, pump kicks in and keeps going until the ballfloat closes again, and the 20m of pipe stays full, instead of draining back to the IBC.
Only been in a few months so is still working fine.
Strainer recommended! It does pick up stuff. I've got the delivery pipe to the pump made from a length of 15mm copper, capped at both ends with maybe a dozen 5mm holes in it, suspended just above the bottom of an IBC, plus the supply side to the IBC is the gutter downpipe feeding into a gutter hopper lined with stainless mesh of the very small hole variety. So far the only crud that's blocked the wc valves has come from the existing black loft header tank when it ran dry - black plastic swarf left there by an unknown "plumber".
Pump power supply is on a timer - 15 mins a day - the pump's a bit too noisy for every time you flush the toilet.

[SimonHa]

Thanks everyone. I looked into all your suggestions, though want it under the sink in the utility which rules out the submersible ones.

After being outbid on Fleabay on both Flojet & Jabsco pumps I have just ordered a new Jabsco Par Max 2.9 (www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/marine_product_guide_-_english.pdf) for ~£55 delivered. The 2.9 is gallons/min = 11l/min so comparable to others suggested. It's supposed to be 12V/4.4A at 0.7bar and up to 1.7 bar max (I'm assuming 17m head or let's say 10m with bends etc - more than enough). It looks mostly plastic and so hopefully quieter than the Shurflow. Will definitely get a strainer of some sort, and report back.

[SimonHa]

Well, I bought a Jabsco PAR-MAX 2.9 pump (31395-0292) and Flojet Inlet Strainer (01740-010) (made by same company, just under a different brand). The 0292 which has a 25 PSI pressure cut-out switch seems more common than the 0392 (which I think has 40 PSI cut-out). This weekend I pumped my first tank full up to the loft  (through the ball float valve) though annoyingly the pump didn't cut out when full  . The pump worked fine, though took some time to do 200l and wasn't as quiet as I might have hoped (due to vibration rather than pump noise) though I suspect they're all like this.

(Rather than divert this thread about suitable pump models I'll start a new one describing my experiences)