Progress and got VERY wet

[camillitech]

It's been months in the making, and I've dragged miles of pipe over heather, bog, rock and through woods. I've got my Land Rover bogged, spent hours rock breaking, lost a few pounds and gained a few grey hairs but it is at last working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXpXWox00WM

OK, I've still got to lay 800m of SWA to a barn that has yet to be built, buy a Sunny Boy and lay a further 140m of SWA to my battery shed but it's working http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/powerspouts-a-goer/ the Powerspout is a 'goer' 

70+m of head, 800m of 90mm penstock and just over 3lts/sec giving me around 24kwh per day  It has been an experience and all I have to say is  'SIPHONS MUST BE AVOIDED'  but if you do need to use one 'I'm your man'   

Cheers, Paul

[biff]

congradulations paul,
                         well done.it has been an uphill battle(rather a downhill one ) but it seems like a system that will pay its way. maybe you will enter the "iron man"contests after this,  good luck,
                                                                 biff

[knighty]

looking good !

I'm surprised it makes so much noise... are the wheel rpm's geared up for the motor ?


what's the plan for the cable losses ?  at 940m they'll be pretty bad...

have you thought about using one of those yellow site transformers in reverse to boost the voltage ?

instead of 240 in 110 out run it backwards with your 380v in and 830v out ?

you could probably feed that straight into your sunnyboy at the other end ?

[camillitech]

Thanks Biff, it's been the closest thing I've had to a 'religious experience' since the penstock on my mates system ended up in the trees 

Hi Knighty,

it is boodly noisy innit  my Stream engine and trusty little Navitron unit were much quieter and my mates Harris with well over 120m of head is positively silent by comparison. All those however are metal units on a concrete, or at least bolted to Scotland base. I'm thinking that it's just the fact that it's plastic and stuck on legs that's making it so friggin loud.

The volt drop is surprisingly little even using 2.5mm square it's less than 10% and still giving me over 1Kw at the Sunny Boy which will be in the barn at 800m (perhaps even 750m) away. From there to the battery shed it will be 10mm square but I already have that 

Cheers, Paul

[Heinz]

it is boodly noisy innit  my Stream engine and trusty little Navitron unit were much quieter and my mates Harris with well over 120m of head is positively silent by comparison. All those however are metal units on a concrete, or at least bolted to Scotland base. I'm thinking that it's just the fact that it's plastic and stuck on legs that's making it so friggin loud.

Looks good  The boys don't say much though.....
Re. the loudness. My as yet not generating turbine is also quite loud, seems to be the runner itself rather than the plastic casing resonating. Jet alignment makes a big difference to the volume.

H

[Richard Owen]

Jet alignment makes a big difference to the volume.

H

And, I'd guess, efficiency.

[knighty]

it is boodly noisy innit  my Stream engine and trusty little Navitron unit were much quieter and my mates Harris with well over 120m of head is positively silent by comparison. All those however are metal units on a concrete, or at least bolted to Scotland base. I'm thinking that it's just the fact that it's plastic and stuck on legs that's making it so friggin loud.
The volt drop is surprisingly little even using 2.5mm square it's less than 10% and still giving me over 1Kw at the Sunny Boy which will be in the barn at 800m (perhaps even 750m) away. From there to the battery shed it will be 10mm square but I already have that 
Cheers, Paul

I guess the paddles on the wheel must flap about a bit to make the noise ? - even if it's too small/tiny to see ?

can you adjust the nozzle at all so it's pointed a bit further away from the wheel ?


I guess the losses don't really matter when you're used to living off grid and then start generating an extra 24kwh/day.... you won;t know what to do with all that extra power... in a few weeks time your house will be so well lit you'll be able to see it from the moon ! :p

[billi]

Hey Paul     well done

Is it a sunny boy or a windy boy you are getting  ?   From the datasheet it looks  very close to the limit  (Voltage wise ) with the Sunny boy  MPP Voltage range 100 V – 320 V

Billi

[StBarnabas]

Paul
very impressive. A simple mgh calcularion yields 3kg (assuming water is 1kg/litre) x 9.81 x70 = 2060 J/s =2.06kW. It looks as if you are only running at about 50% efficiency. Where are your major losses?
Sean
 

[billi]

Hi Sean 

i have been told   by a powerspout supplier , that the powerspout is not the highest efficient  unit   , but hard to beat in price and performance range

[camillitech]

Morning Heinz, Richard, Knighty, Billi, and all 

Regarding the noise and jet position, yes you're right it does make a huge difference and 'jet alignment' is covered handsomely in their excellent manual, well it would be excellent if it was actually a book and not friggin PDF  You guys may be comfortable with this computer malarky but I aint 

http://www.powerspout.com/assets/Uploads/public/PS-install-manual-Feb-2011.pdf



You move the runner in our out with washers but the jet distance from the spoons is preset. That picture looks far worse than it actually was, but with the top jet lined up perfectly the bottom one was slightly out. It is a great bit of kit but the MDPE housing is not as strong as it could be, or anywhere near as solid as the Harris, Stream Engine, or Navitron units.



Once the unit was bolted down however it was possible to move the lower jet into position by distorting the housing with thin wooden wedges. And yes it really does make a huge difference to the noise and the amount and direction of water spray. The beauty of the vertical runner and perspex cover is that it enables you to easily see if the pelton wheel is being hit correctly by watching the spray pattern, something that's covered in the PDF.

Hi St B,

the efficiency is not that bad, it is after all after pipe, conversion, cable and inverter losses. This will be the fourth hydro turbine I've done and that seems to be about right. It will be interesting to see if Heinz manages more than 60%  Also bear in mind that I haven't actually measured it yet, it could be worse 

Hi Billi,

you got me a little worried there about the Sunny Boy, sure enough the data sheet says 320v for MPPT but 400v max, though the unit has been used with the Sunny Boy before and it's mentioned in the PDF so fingers crossed 

Cheers, Paul

[billi]

Hi Paul

 just  was digging in the back of my brain  and remembered   that a supplier for Powerspout  in Germany (Simon) uses the Windy boy

Why ? I do not know     ( some say the windy boy is the same as the sunny boy  , just with other set-points    )

Billi

[knighty]

I guess it will be hard to set the jets up properly now...

once it's all connected up and running the load from the inverter will slow the motor down and change how it runs/the efficiency of it ?

I'm only guessing here... but I'd think that at high rpm you'd want the water just catching the edge of the spoons... but at low rpm you'd want it pointed in a bit more ?

[camillitech]

Hi Paul

 just  was digging in the back of my brain  and remembered   that a supplier for Powerspout  in Germany (Simon) uses the Windy boy

Why ? I do not know     ( some say the windy boy is the same as the sunny boy  , just with other set-points    )

Billi

Hi Billi, apparently you can use either and the GE400 was designed with this in mind. There's been a run on Sunny Boys so it'll be a Windy Boy I'm getting, can't wait. Though judging by the size of the hole that's just been dug to find something solid to put my barn on it may be a while before I connect it up 

Cheers, Paul

[camillitech]

I guess it will be hard to set the jets up properly now...

once it's all connected up and running the load from the inverter will slow the motor down and change how it runs/the efficiency of it ?

I'm only guessing here... but I'd think that at high rpm you'd want the water just catching the edge of the spoons... but at low rpm you'd want it pointed in a bit more ?

Hi Knighty, it should be all set up correctly as regards the jet sizes at the factory, one thing about http://www.powerspout.com/ they certainly produce the most accurate and comprehensive calculator that I've come across http://www.powerspout.com/advanced-calculator/

Cheers, Paul