We think we have issues...35p Kw anyone?

[andrewindevon]

Thanks to work I recently had a couple of days on an island in the Caribbean. (I know I know add up the carbon emissions for that  ) there really was no other way, does it help if I said I didn't enjoy it? I mean I did.. but I could pretend?

However, what struck me was that on this island ,of about the 1,800 sun drenched buildings there was one, yes one, PV array.

So I dropped round for a chat, it's that sort of an island...turns out that the electricity company has a 15 year exclusive deal and grid connect micro-generation is prohibited.  They have only got permission for their array (a 4kwP system) as it is off grid and seen as something of an experiment and besides they're (as far as you can be on a fairly small island) in the middle of nowhere. 

By the way, electric costs are about 35p a Kw with a £5 a month standing charge and it's all fuel oil generated.  The electric company did put up a wind turbine test mast about 4 years ago, nice average windspeed of about 20mph, high hopes and land set aside ... but then a hurricane flattened it and they seem to be rethinking it.

Ok I accept that island communities have some surety of supply issues, it's a complex issue and the power company has to ship and stockpile fuel, and so on and so forth but that is a frightening price for power.

[Philip R]

35p per kW for installed generation capacity sounds quite reasonable, in fact way too cheap!

Coal about £700 to £1000 per kW
Nuclear over £1500 to £2000 per kW
Solar PV at about £ 2000 per KW. Apologies if my figures are a bit out, but they are in the right order of magnitude.

With the first two, got to buy some fuel.  With your fuel oil option, sounds really cheap, hence the low standing charge. Scottish Power charge me double that.

Of course, if the island can do a deal with matey boy in Venezuela, with some subsidized ultra cheap petrol, they could generate electricity for free and just have a nominal standing charge!

PhilipR

[andrewindevon]

I was just comparing it to us paying 14p per KW/hr which is bad enough.  Doubling our cost would be crippling!

[M]

I was just comparing it to us paying 14p per KW/hr which is bad enough.  Doubling our cost would be crippling!

I know I've got a very odd sense of humour, but the first mental image I got from this post, was of a crowd of anti winders, standing with their backs to a turbine going up, whilst casually whistling and pretending that they haven't noticed it. 

Probably renewable's best friend is high energy costs.

I'm now pondering how you make PV hurricane proof (attention span of a carrot).

Mart.

[clockmanFR]

M, yes you have, "odd sense of humour" but at least its real.!

Here in France, we are charged £35 per month connection fee, then 40% of the bill is local/regional/distribution, dog got bad knee, etc taxes.

So you use £80 electricity in 2 months, (bills here are 2 monthly) then expect a bill of about £200.


Therefore we calculate on average yearly consumption we are paying about 28p per KW/h.

Even worse just found out last night that EDF have removed the Cruese/Economy 7 tariff, (it was bound to happen) so looks like it will be about 40p per KW/h.

Looks like the Carribean for us?

On a serious note though the Mrs and i agreed that we would double our PV tracker installations to 6KW and add another 3.7m windturbine, which coincidentally we got permission from the Local Mayor on Wednesday last week.
We had been concerned for some time that the cheap rate electricity would be discontinued, it just makes business sense if you are a financial organization trying to maximise your profits, EDF.?
 

[martin]

So there's La Belle France mostly atom-powered, with ludicrously expensive electricity...... connections anyone?

I remember a time when we were told atom power would be too cheap to meter, and we'd all have free power...........

[clockmanFR]

Martin, the thing is on this that EDF own most of the UK electricity?

Anyway i have started another thread.

FIT tariff reduced, economy 7 ?

[dimengineer]

So there's La Belle France mostly atom-powered, with ludicrously expensive electricity...... connections anyone?

I remember a time when we were told atom power would be too cheap to meter, and we'd all have free power...........

Well curiously, Italy has no Nuclear, imports 10% of its electricity from France, and the consumer cost/kWh is higher..... 

Selective quoteing does nobody any favours.....

[martin]

Doesn't alter the fact one jot that France is mostly nuclear, and their electricity is pretty pricey! (AND they don't have particularly high safety standards....)
Yet another reason we should be following Germany's lead and giving nukes the boot........

[andrewindevon]

Well I guess 35p a KW/hr isn't that bad for an island in the middle of nowhere then! 

I would have thought at those prices renewable generation would be competitive as well as reducing the reliance on imported fuel oil.  The question is, if UK electricity was at those prices would we need FiTs? 

I'm now pondering how you make PV hurricane proof (attention span of a carrot)

This chaps ones were ground mounted and, from what I could gather, demountable for forecast extreme weather. A lot of houses on the island are second homes so the owners simply secure the house and pass hurricane season elsewhere.  Bit harder for the locals though. 

[M]

Well I guess 35p a KW/hr isn't that bad for an island in the middle of nowhere then! 

I would have thought at those prices renewable generation would be competitive as well as reducing the reliance on imported fuel oil.  The question is, if UK electricity was at those prices would we need FiTs? 

Assuming 10p max difference between import and export, then half production at 25p and half at 35p, average 30p.

For my 3.6kWh ESE system, that would give approx 2,850kWh * £0.30 = £855

Cost of system post 12/12 would probably / hopefully be around £8k, so 855/8,000 = 10.69%

Definitely worth doing, and more southerly oriented systems would produce more.

At those prices every empty piece of land will have a wind turbine on it, and maybe a mass of PV on the southern side too.

I doubt prices could ever get that high here as I'd assume wind power would top UK prices out somewhere near 20p at today's costs, hopefully less in the near future, 17p ish?

Mart.

[desperate]

Doesn't alter the fact one jot that France is mostly nuclear, and their electricity is pretty pricey! (AND they don't have particularly high safety standards....)
Yet another reason we should be following Germany's lead and giving nukes the boot........

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php?title=File:Half-yearly_electricity_and_gas_prices,_first_half_of_year,_2009-2011_%28EUR_per_kWh%29.png&filetimestamp=20111124164017

oops

Desp

[clockmanFR]

sorry desperate, where the hell do they get those figures from?

I know what i am paying, and it is nothing like what is in your tables.!

Seems to me good Old UK play by the ball again, while every one else blatantly lies.

Just don't get me going on dammen ed statistics and lies!

[desperate]

Clockman,

dunno mate, try these then.........http://www.energy.eu/

any better??

Desp

[desperate]

Clockman,

the second link I posted quotes UK leccy costing E0.16/kWh and sure enough I have just checked out my statements and we pay 11p for the first 300, then 15 p for the rest. Those statistics seem fine to me, it's your bill thats dodgy ............

Incidentally both sets of figures are pretty much the same for UK leccy

Desp

PS both sets of figures are spot on for our gas cost as well.............