navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
UK's most popular Renewable Energy Forum May 24, 2012, 10:27:20 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: UPDATE ON DECC APPLICATION FOR LEAVE TO APPEAL TO THE SUPREME COURT | Yingli Green Energy's PV Module Ranks No.2 in TUV Rheinland Energy Yield Test | Navitron Solar Showers at Glastonbury for Year 5!
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Electronics help please  (Read 1432 times)
ericw
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 735


« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2011, 11:04:22 AM »

.  You could think about a large dimmer switch to control the power and hand tweak it.


Circuits for this type of application have been the subject of many posts over the years. Anyone thinking of using phase angle control to reduce the power in a standard immersion heater should have a look at http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11700.0.html (especially reply #13)

The easiest way to do it is to use a microcontroller (PIC/PICAXE/Arduino etc) to measure the current in the mains supply lead and its phase relative to the mains voltage and then switch in a lower power immersion heater when the current being supplied to the mains exceeds a threshold. It would be even better to switch in a range of heaters but as ratings other than 3kW are much more expensive than standard ones it becomes uneconomic.
Logged
Davo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 145



« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2011, 09:20:09 PM »

Food for thought.  Or in my case, food that kept me from sleeping last night.

A 3kW immersion on 110V will be about 750W.  To raise the temperature of a 150l cylinder from 10 to 60C needs about 9kW of energy.  If we ignore that it loses 1kW/day, with 750W, this is about 12 hours of heating.  As you have a large array, you probably will have a 750W excess, but  for how long?  I currently have 500w surplus on a 1kw array, with another 5 hours of (potential) sunlight.  I would have more, but someones got the router and a PC plugged in.  So I suspect you'll have  a greater surplus.  You could think about a large dimmer switch to control the power and hand tweak it.

I think your circuit is fine.  The comment about the diode is a good one.  The AC values you gave are most likely RMS so the lowest figure of 0.2 to 0.8RMS is 0.28 to 1.2V peak.  If you use a germanium diode, that's 0.2V gone, so a large error at 5A, which is roughly where a 1kw heater starts.  It might work in your favour, as the error will mean (I think) you are firmly into surplus energy. (you could look here  http://sound.westhost.com/appnotes/an001.htm at precision OPAMP rectifiers, but dont look too carefully)  Equally, the out of phase load I & V should work in your favour as the current vector (bear with me) will be longer and hence will make you think that you are using more power than you are.  Hence your system will be pessimistic.  Better that way.  Comments anyone?

My brain hurts.  Time for a cuppa.  Can you please just build this so we can all go back to reading the paper?

Sorry I have kept you awake Artful (I bet it’s kept me awake more though).
A bit of background.
I have only had my system for a month. Not the best time of year to harvest the sun for whatever reason. As you say, I have a system that will be quite useful, especially in the summer. In fact in the summer the immersion will be on a timer and will come on irrespective – working on the principle I will generally be exporting more than I need. It’s the winter time that’s the problem – low sun, unreliable conditions and short days. At present I have the 2 Owl monitors, one measuring PV output and the other house load with their displays sat in the kitchen. When I go PV positive by enough I use a remote controlled switch which turns on the immersion. Fun at first to think you are heating the water FOC, but after a month the novelty has worn off. Automation is required !  Hence trying to come up with my own solution without costing a fortune.
Thanks for the maths etc regarding heating the water up. The thing is, it’s only a short reach stat, so it tends to only heat up the top 1/3 of the tank. It’s adequate for me and her indoors for hand-washing and a shower etc each day.
I have been to Maplins today and bought myself a breadboard, so construction starts soon (thanks again for the tip).
Sleep well.
Logged

20 x BP 190W Mono (3.8kWp), SMA Sunny Boy SB4000. SE facing.
Grantham, Lincs, UK
defiler
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 74


« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2011, 09:52:21 PM »

When I go PV positive by enough I use a remote controlled switch which turns on the immersion. Fun at first to think you are heating the water FOC, but after a month the novelty has worn off. Automation is required ! 

Ah, the war-cry of the Western world - "Give me convenience or give me death!"
Says me with my attic-based server full of cron jobs and perl scripts Cheesy
Logged
Davo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 145



« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2012, 09:35:42 PM »

Hi folks
Thanks for all those that contributed.
I now have a fully working controller - see thread:
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16274.0.html

A big thank you to ARTFULBODGER for his invaluable help, support and reassurance.

Davo
Logged

20 x BP 190W Mono (3.8kWp), SMA Sunny Boy SB4000. SE facing.
Grantham, Lincs, UK
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!