power my liveaboard barge by solar energy

[MrPugs]

I am trying to choose the correct equiptment to power my liveaboard barge by solar energy
I have little experience with this equiptment and find the range of equiptment avalible a minefield
as of now I am planning to install
 
3No. 24v x 250w Sanyo panels
wita a TriStar MPPT 45 controller and a MorningStar TS-RM-2 remote panel
 
Is the above equiptment good quality, has anyone experience with it ?
 
The system will be used to charge two large truck batteries and power the domestic usage onboard
 
Donal

[rogeriko]

Sanyo panels are not designed for battery charging.
Sanyo panels are expensive.
MPPT chargers are expensive.

You would be better off buying twice as many normal 29 volt 8 amp chinese panels and a simple charge controller and you would still have money left over for a lot of beers.

3 sanyo panels might give you enough for 1 light bulb. 6 eight amp chinese panels will give you plenty of power, thats all I have and I am off grid.
Welcome to the forum

[billi]

Hi 

It is not very clear to me .... are you  thinking of 12 or 24 volt ?

[MrPugs]

The barge is wired for 12v, so it will have to be 12v

[martin]

Well, there's nothing actually wrong with a 12v system, it's just that many people opt for a higher voltage as the wiring can be lighter gauge - I'd suggest that a mix of 12v and "mains" from an inverter will probably do everything you need. I certainly concur with the comments about panel choice, and going by "what would I do in your shoes", I'd probably opt for some of the "house brand" Yingli panels that are made specifically for charging batteries - I've had some for a few years, they perform very well, and are built like the proverbial brick outhouse - http://www.navitron.org.uk/product.php?proID=133 - the "new" controllers are also worth a look - http://www.navitron.org.uk/product_detail.php?proID=662&catID=127 - you could have 2 or three of them for a large array.

The best thing for a system like this is to "start backwards" and firstly work out your likely power consumption (having minimised consumption as far as possible), then size your battery bank and panellage to provide what you need - there's several posts where people have discussed this sort of thing before - I'm sure there's several of us happy to help you too - as every "off-gridder" will tell you, battery choice is of prime importance, and you can rapidly end up with a pile of very dead and unrevivable ones if you get it wrong...

[billi]

Hi

The morningstar MPPT  is as far as i know a very good product , not sure if you need the remote panel , i think you can hook the controller to a laptop

A Outback FM 60 MPPT  would be another good choice    for the same price , but   can handle 800 watt  instead of the 600 watt from the morningstar + panel

Like the others said , i would not bother with overpriced PV,  when one can get  them for starting  at 1 GBP  per watt ( Navitron)

Roger might have thought you are  on 24 Volt

Billi

[rogeriko]

Indeed i presumed you would have a 24 volt system, its a lot easier at 24 volts. Cant you just change the bulbs to make a 24 volt system. What 12v equipment do you have?

[MrPugs]

The domestic supply was wired as 12v originaly by me as the starting system was 12v, It would not be a big problim to change

The present AC setup is

1. Shore power through a 4kva isolation transformer
2. 8kva diesel generator

These are wired through a change over switch to a standard domestic distrubution board
The nuetral from the transformer and the generator are bonded to the steel hull in one location as are the negatives of the batterys

Todate I have got along fine with shore power and the generator

The DC setup consists of

1. one truck battery for starting the main engine, which is charged by an altonator on the engine
2. one car battery for starting the generator, which is charged by an altonator on the generator
3. Two truck batteries for the domestic supply, which are charged by a standard 220v battery charger that is connected continiously and charges the batteries once there is 220v on the system


The DC load is only lights, radio, navigation equiptment and phone chargers
The AC load is battery charging, oil fired boiler and circulating pump, lights, microwave oven, 2 induction hobs, kettle, toaster,tv, laptop
When running off shore power the usage is around 6-8kwh per day (metered and paid for by smart card daily)

My intention is to make the vessel self-sufficent for power as much as possible hence the wish to add a PV source

My background is electrical but I have little experience of the PV and am finding it hard to chose the correct kit


So if I take the demand as 8kwh per day with out having made any attempt to reduce the load. What would be a good system to install ?
Would a wind generator be of use in the winter ?

Many thanks for the interist and replies

Donal

[Billy]

Hi Donal

You might find (as we did) that wind is very noisy.  We have a Navitron 300 which is brill but the resonance in the cabin was such that we had to walk around in ear defenders which didn't please Mrs B.  There was no noise outside with the quiet blades on.  Ones with a metre blade diameter or so with some good isolation mounts are ok on board.  The Navi 300 resides on a land mounted pole now.  We get good wind but location is the key so check before shelling out loads of dosh for something that not going to give you very much.

I struggle to get below 5 units a day.  All the lights are led or low energy, heating is non electric gravity system so no pumps.  We have all the normal domestic stuff, TV, PC, WM, DW etc.

We have a mix of 240v via inverter and 24v, 12v comes from a 10 amp dropper but doesn't get used much.  We have a 24v diesel charging plant rather than a 240v genny.  Hot water comes from EV tubes mounted on a turntable so they face the sun when we move.  Woodburner is teed into the central heating and tops up the hot water in winter.

PV is my next project but space and wave/salt water (and money) may prove a problem.   

billy
 

[MrPugs]

Rodgeriko: You would be better off buying twice as many normal 29 volt 8 amp chinese panels and a simple charge controller and you would still have money left over for a lot of beers. 3 sanyo panels might give you enough for 1 light bulb. 6 eight amp chinese panels will give you plenty of power, thats all I have and I am off grid.
Welcome to the forum

Hi Rodger
If I convert the barge to 24v could you let me know the panel and controller type that you installed

Hi Billy
It is good to hear from another boat man, interisting your experience onboard with the noise level from a wind turbine
What type of solar heating did you install on your vessel


Based on a demand of 8kwh per day what size/type of battery bank should I install

Regards
Donal

[rogeriko]

Nice 8 amp panels perfect for charging 24 volt batteries only 270 pounds each. http://www.navitron.org.uk/product_detail.php?proID=665&catID=126 the charge controller depends on how many panels you have but 50 amp controller ie 6 panels shouldnt be more than 60/70 pounds

[billi]

Roger ,

just a question   ,in hot climates like Greece , when Panels (30 volt ) get realy hot  , the voltage will drop significantly,  even lower then to get the  24 volt battery fully charged

Is that not a problem ?  It you see this happening  ?


Donal    we have 4 kw  PV  and similar  consumption  as you ( about 8 kwh)   , surely too much in summer  , but it helps in winter as well  , so  about 8-9 month  100 % PV power in our house  and the rest  of the time the PV gets help 

Sure we have a windturbine as well but  even befor   her time    this worked out similar
We are south coast of  Ireland ( so quite good  solar conditions) 

The battery is a second hand forklift battery 1660 ah @ 24 volt since nearly 4 years now

Perhaps  too big  for your boat  , but 2-3 kw PV  would be  good  and integrate your Generator  for charging  , but do not know if you have the space

Its   crazy cheap now compared to 5 yeas ago    when my first Panels were about 3.5 GBP  per watt and now only 1 GBP or less 

Regards Billi





 

[rogeriko]

No even in mid summer when the panels are roasting hot I still get rated output, you see the sun here is stronger so it makes up for the losses. If I water cool a panel in the shade I can easily get 20% more than rated when I put it in full sun for a few minutes.

[billi]

still  i  am not sure ,  and i think its better to work with MPPT  and higher Panel voltage ore two or three in series to beef up voltage  ,  looking at these  secs as example  and the charging voltage (Vmp) of 26.7 Volt  only   at 800 W/M2 irradiance, 20oC ambient temperature,   sounds not enough for me or same when they get too warm  the volt drops

http://www.kyocerasolar.com/assets/001/5125.pdf


I am not  convinced   that a regular PWM solar charger  will be woth the  loss  on both sides  , one side are the losses  if there is a bigger gap between  battery and PV voltage  , the other side is  when PV and Battery voltage gets too close , then there are charging  losses

Perhaps i am too critical 

Billi 

[MrPugs]

Hi Billi

I am located just north of you at Terryglass on Lough Derg

The roof of the barge is 50ft by 12ft so I should have enough room
I notice a lot of contributers use outback controllers, how have you found these ?
Do you have a recomendation of panel size/type
Building a proper battery bank in the engine room will be fun

Donal