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Author Topic: Hidden persuaders....  (Read 1528 times)
martin
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« on: December 26, 2011, 11:40:09 AM »

There's a lot being made in several recent threads of man's seeming inability to change their attitudes and habits (for better or worse), and thought it worth starting a thread on just that aspect. In my lifetime, attitudes have completely changed on many things - gays have gone from illegality and being reviled to being positively welcomed, as a youth you weren't a man if you didn't drink and smoke, drunk driving was accepted, we had the death penalty, and corporal punishment was dished out by warped sadists in schools as a matter of course - flats to let bore signs saying "no blacks, no Irish, no dogs" - in the intervening years, attitudes have thankfully changed, mostly for the better, both from natural progress, and in the case of such things as drunk driving and smoking persuaded by public campaigns.
That's on the good side - in the same time period, we've had the growth of "PR" and advertising - the same techniques being used to sell us the capitalist dream " buy this hair jollop/ synthetic weasel pee scent/ bucket of chicken that died in a pool of it's own misery fried in spiced axle grease/ cans of old wifebeater weasel widdle because it'll make you interesting/sexy/desirable......... all feeding the capitalist juggernaut - sadly, politicos have picked up on the same techniques to "sell" ideas to us, often to our extreme detriment, and to further their own (or their lobbyists') agendas - we are being subjected to it at the moment - government has done a major "damage limitation" exercise to try to minimise the adverse public reaction after Fukushima, they're trying to soften us up for the introduction of GMOs, they pay lip service to "being the greenest government ever" while aiding Canada to sell it's filthy oil from tar sands.........

I could go on....... but I think the point has been made that attitudes CAN be changed, and relatively quickly - we need to wise up to the fact that we are surrounded by "spin" and need to ensure that it is used positively for a change - smoking is daft, as is energy profligacy.....
In simple terms we need to make being green "cool" - we have to change our ways, and we need to use the tools available to us.............. garden
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 12:31:44 PM by martin » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 12:12:59 PM »

Clearly I'm not as extreme as you about some of this stuff. A statement that will hopefully be neither a surprise to you nor offensive. But I agree, for all my moanings about 'stuff' there have been great leaps forward, certainly as regards all forms of tolerance. Coming from a straight white bloke this could easily come across as the worst case of patronising drivel ever, but I think issues such as racism and homophobia in Britain have improved substantially, especially when you look to both capitalist and socialist extremes, such as the USA, Russia and China, and there attitudes and intolerances. I hope said improvements continue.

As regards climate change, energy conservation, planet stewardship etc, am I being hopelessly optimistic in suggesting that it may no longer be a brick wall that we are banging our heads against. Perhaps now it's more like a stud partition, and so long as we avoid the studs, then it's certainly possible to make a dent or two?

Mart.
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martin
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 12:23:54 PM »

I'd quibble over "extreme" - I'd argue that telling a friend that it's wise to knock a two bottles of spirits a day habit on the head, and helping them kick the habit is being a good friend.....  Wink
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 01:10:11 PM »

from the NY Times - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/books/review/Greif-t.html?pagewanted=all

"The Hard Sell, By MARK GREIF

"The books a child sneaks off his parents’ bookshelves and surreptitiously reads ought to be sex books. “Lady Chatterley’s Lover” and “Memoirs of Hecate County” scandalized and educated earlier generations. The volume I made off with was a 75-cent paperback of “The Hidden Persuaders” by Vance Packard. It did scandalize me, completely. But it did so by exposing the secret world of advertising and brands. Published in 1957, it is now enjoying its 50th anniversary and a new edition from Ig Publishing, with an introduction by Mark Crispin Miller. I remember my own edition as small enough to hide — not that I really needed to — but packed with dynamite. It had a lurid cover illustration showing a barbed fishhook buried in a gleaming apple. Packard’s book reached into the darkest corners, not of sensuality, which I was sure I knew all about from television, but of the cynical selling in the commercials that ran between the shows.

I was a child of television. Whatever appeared on the color screen of our fake burled wood cabinet TV was a miraculous transmission from a better world. My devotion to television is the only way I can account for the disillusion I suffered at the hands of Packard’s book. Packard had tried to warn Americans of a new mutation in advertising. Powerful admen were working to tap the irrational in the consumer mind, using the applied psychology and sociology supported by the government during World War II. As more goods came to supermarket shelves, advertisers decided they were no longer selling just products, but malleable brand “personalities.” Decades later, I knew the results. Of course Coke was the red wholesomeness of tradition and majority taste, and Pepsi was the younger, blue, less popular choice of a rebellious new generation! My 14-year-old self was sure of it.

Vance Packard had grown up in a different world, in a Methodist farm family in Pennsylvania during the 1920s. Automobiles were still a novelty. Packard’s biographer, Daniel Horowitz, reports a family story about how his dairyman father once tried to stop the family car by shouting “Whoa!” rather than braking and crashed through the wall of his garage. Even after Packard became a sophisticated New York City magazine writer, he simmered at his Madison Avenue colleagues’ manipulation of ordinary folks, people like his childhood neighbors. His muckraking defense of traditional values with up-to-date exposés made him a household name. He had three books on the best-seller lists within four years.

Packard had lived on the cusp of two eras, and what fascinated me as a teenage reader was how close in time he had been to the invention of brands that seemed as solid and permanent to me as trees and stones. Marlboro, the essence of macho, had first been a women’s cigarette, “lipstick red and ivory tipped.” Advertisers managed to push it into a male market while holding on to its previous customers through ad campaigns of “rugged, virile-looking men” (like the famous cowboy) whom, studies proved, women liked too. Packard traced how products like gasoline and detergent, so standardized and reliable in the 1950s, needed to develop “personalities” to survive. I, for one, knew I was a Mobil guy long before I ever got my learner’s permit, though I had no idea why.

The bête noire of “The Hidden Persuaders” was “motivational research.” Rather than focusing on products, this “depth” research dug into the psychological weaknesses and needs of consumers. Packard wanted brands to certify purity or quality, to make an old-fashioned fact-based appeal to citizens who had price and effectiveness in mind. Scientists of motivation, on the other hand, were trying to puzzle out the reasons for impulsive and even self-destructive purchasing, then tailor images and packaging accordingly.

A lot of their research makes sense. People often answer questionnaires by giving idealized pictures of their habits rather than confessing their real weaknesses and needs. How can you know what buyers want unless you probe them more skillfully? Cake-mix makers, for example, had ruined their product by engineering too much for convenience: they told housewives to just add water and turn on the oven. Only after female focus groups revealed the pleasures and responsibilities of cake-making did food makers reformulate their products to require the cook to add eggs and milk, so the activity felt like “baking.”

Polling and focus groups (then called “panel reaction” and “group interviews”) seem part of what we now sometimes consider the democracy of the marketplace — at least for such benign things as recipes. But Packard saw nothing benign when the same techniques were applied to the 1956 presidential election. Presidents would be elected on “personality.” Messages would be short and focus-grouped. Conventions would be choreographed by emissaries from Hollywood. As the 2008 primaries approach, it’s disturbing to see how the novelties Packard deplored have become accepted fundamentals. For 1956, professional advertisers were hired to “swing crucial voters” in “the undecided or listless mass,” trolling for weaknesses in candidates’ images. The “switch voter,” an advertising expert explained after much study, is not a thoughtful “independent” but someone who “switches for some snotty little reason such as not liking the candidate’s wife.” We do pay more overt attention to candidates’ spouses today — not, perhaps, because of more advanced beliefs about marital partnership, but because we’ve all learned to watch the games strategists concoct to reach the “listless mass.” Does that also mean we’ve partly joined it?

In any case, candidates can hardly opt out. “The idea that you can merchandise candidates for high office like breakfast cereal ... is the ultimate indignity to the democratic process,” Adlai Stevenson said of political marketing. He lost.

The weaker parts of Packard’s book are those that overemphasize the sinister power of “depth” rather than the greater power of ubiquity. We’ve since learned that advertisers don’t need depth — not when they can saturate so many advertising spaces and opportunities. Buy enough campaign ads and you can hammer your candidate’s name home. Learn basic consumer desires and you don’t need to re-engineer the subconscious. You just need to send those unspoken desires a huge amount of spam. Spam, like direct mail, billboard advertising and the repetition of names, slogan and logos, became the real future of advertising: overwhelming volume combined with clever placement.

What’s surprising is the degree to which we’ve all become sophisticates, engaging in our own Packard-like critiques of consumer culture without changing our habits. We know we buy irrationally; we just don’t care. We imagine that the “manipulators” at J. Walter Thompson or BBDO play only on the fears and hopes of desperate consumers who aren’t as “conscious” as we are (in which case it’s hard not to admire the ingenuity of the advertisers), while we ourselves are smart enough to decide when to give in. On the last page of “The Hidden Persuaders,” Packard had to acknowledge the paradox: “When irrational acts are committed knowingly they become a sort of delicious luxury.” We seem to enjoy both knowing that ads are hustling us and choosing to be hustled.

This raises the question of whether consumer education and advertising criticism ever help consumers, especially the young. “Media studies” efforts that try to inoculate grade-school kids against Ronald McDonald don’t get much respect. Yet, speaking for myself, the inoculation techniques did make an impact. From the age of 5, I recall more clearly than most things a PBS children’s show’s mock commercial on behalf of water. As if something free to everybody could be sold! (This was before the age of Poland Springs.) Those 90 seconds of TV blew my 5-year-old mind, alerting me that all the other advertisements interrupting my cartoons weren’t out to help me. I could never have put that into words, but then, as the admen know, ads often teach you things you can’t quite say.

Today, we have Naomi Klein’s “No Logo” and Adbusters magazine, but these seem like specially advanced therapies. Whatever its flaws, I’ll keep recommending “The Hidden Persuaders.” For me, it’s the original inoculation against manipulation, and every once in a while — perhaps especially in this political season — one needs to go back for a booster.
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Solal
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 01:28:56 PM »

In the ole days  people lived within their means. Now  the social  advances (particulary  in the western world) we have are great but unsustainable  as its beyond our means. Hence why most western nations are financially  bankrupt  and will  lead  to social unrest   and war.
We need the world population back  to 1920's  levels. (ie - less than 2 billion)
Starvation  and war might acheive this. Especially  after  peak oil  and  the oil decline really kicks in.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 01:35:24 PM by Solal » Logged
Heinz
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2011, 03:35:45 PM »

Apologies for what will probably be a directionless ramble of a reply....

For years I had no TV and didn't miss it one bit. I listened to radio Scotland and Radio 4 most of the time and some crazy short wave stuff for entertainment. Not being bombarded by TV gives you a completely different view of the world. No more sensationalist news, no adverts for sh*te you don't need, no celebrities spouting pish. A much more wholesome outlook on life.
The woman arrived about ten years ago and after about six months of moaning I gave in and got a second hand TV  facepalm
Now we have two boys and they watch TV with all the media corruption that comes with it. I want, I want.. It's endless and I can see no realistic way to fight it. If I deny them TV here they will just see it at friends houses and if they are anything like I was at 6 years old, telling them they can't have something just makes them want it more.
The woman was talking to a friend about the new ASDA in town. She described it as only carrying the basics, mostly just ASDA own brands. I'm not sure quite how big it is, maybe 15,000 square feet? of everything you could possibly need and loads you don't need, yet the woman thinks this is just a basics shop.... I despair
Peoples aspirations are far too high. To me a small house with a good roof, woodstove and enough ground to feed myself is more than enough. My house is considered small, old fashioned, low class? Oh the bedrooms don't have en-suite? The kids have to share a room??!!! Christ, kids used to live about six to a room with the little one sleeping in an open drawer lined with blankets.... They were fed, clothed, warm and loved. What more did they need??
People had the wireless and it was listened to in wonder. People got black and white TV, then colour, now the thing to aspire to is a home cinema, not just a tv, but a whole room devoted just to watching the great god TV and films with thier clever product placement. "Television, the Drug of the Nation" by The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy
I remember the stupid panic driven by the media just before year 2000 about the world going tits up because the computers couldn't handle the date change. I wrote at the time that I thought it was p*sh but that I hoped it would happen as it might cause the people who were so stupid that they 'valued Nike shoes more than putting food on the table' to starve. I watched the recent riots here and hoped they would get much further out of hand than they did. I can see no route for REAL social change and a major reality check other than serious social unrest. The system is just too complex and entrenched for it to ever change otherwise.
I'm very much a peace loving person so the last thing I want is war/famine/plague but they world is just so far down the path of consumption/media/hype/spin/waste  madness ....
Christmas. What a bloody nightmare, the media sponsored compulsory purchase of cr*p that's probably both unwanted and un-needed by the recipient.
The green movement is like all other 'movements'. It's busy being hijacked by the people who already control the country/world and is being twisted to their own ends. 'Green' is just the latest way to sell a product to the sheeple.
I think I've depressed myself enough for one boxing day...

H
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 03:40:42 PM by Heinz » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 03:42:19 PM »

Open All Hours - is an interesting tv show n terms of where consumerism used to be.

It's only from the 1980s too. (am pretty certain of that but haven't checked due to being on one of the most consumerist devices on the planet)

Making green trendy and popular might be achievable but perhaps only if we ban all the celeb culture rubbish off the tv.
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biff
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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 06:06:59 PM »

heinz,
     i loved that post,it brings back memories and you have got it right.
    the lack of sunlight and the grey drizzle would depress anyone.
        she and i got out of the house and did a tour of bloody foreland and gweedore. we saw the atlantic where the bog rolls down to the sea.the grey soup closed in on everything and we knew it was time to hightail it back to our warm hearth.this must be the wettest christmas,a monsoon christmas. everything is saturated and dripping.praise be for a good warm dry place to park one,s butt or lay ones head, roll on the spring,
                                                                                                                               biff
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Heinz
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2011, 06:51:31 PM »

Hi Biff

Send some of your rain over here, been dry, overcast and warm for days, the hydro is down to 320w with the trickle of a burn. Maybe that's why I'm on a downer? No, it's just christmas  Roll Eyes everything I don't like and the sooner I'm back in the workshop the better. My welder is calling me  extrahappy

H
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Ki Lo Watt
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2011, 08:53:18 PM »

In simple terms we need to make being green "cool" - we have to change our ways, and we need to use the tools available to us.............. garden

I think you are a dreamer Martin!

If millions of people are happy to rush out on boxing day to buy more Stuff and even queue from 2am then what does this tells us? They are even killing each other!

How will these punters change their ways? The only “tools” they can operate are the remote control and mobile to order a takeaway!

Do you really think standards are better today with all the liberal attitudes? It seems totally normal for folk on TV to make jolly talk about homosexually acts and f and blind because its cool.

So if you want to make “being green cool”  get a camp drug taking recovering alcoholic to push the agenda and you will do fine. Just get Syco to produce on the big networks with plenty of big corporate adverts.
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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2011, 09:39:05 PM »

hi ki lo watt,
            im sorry you are feeling so low,i think it has something to do with the post christmas"come down to earth with a bang" effect.
   there is no harm in dreaming but these dreams stand every chance of turning to reality.we just have to educate people and stop them from squandering their assetts.we start gently by turning out the light we dont need,then we get bulbs that use a fraction of the power. we do that to anything and everything.we learn to live with less.we dont have to suffer or give ourselves a hard time.we just have to use our brain a bit better.
         martin has a tough job on here.it must be quite annoying for him sometimes. but give him his dues.he does cut through the bullsh&tt and get to the point quicker than most.i would not regard him as extreme,far from it.instead he ploughs the same steady furrow day in and week out,he wants to set the seeds for renewable and sustainables and thats what he is all about.that combined with an exellent sense of humour makes him a moderator to be reconed with.it is due to his exellent stewardship that this forum runs as smooth as it does,,
                                        biff
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langstroth3
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« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 12:25:12 AM »

Quote
It's endless and I can see no realistic way to fight it. If I deny them TV here they will just see it at friends houses and if they are anything like I was at 6 years old, telling them they can't have something just makes them want it more.

I find being a tad cynical, in earshot of, our two children over what ever adverts/info-tainment they are watching, seems to have rubbed off - they are (I think) very aware of what the adverts are trying to do; and we always have a laugh at those tv and radio ads that spew those rapid terms and condition sections at the end. I agree with you, trying to prevent it will probably back-fire, trying to teach them how to handle the infotainment-advert deluge is the only way. It's tricky though not coming over as the grumpy old (to them) man in the corner!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 12:26:54 AM by langstroth3 » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2011, 12:59:36 AM »

Young children copy what their parents do  and even when they grow up they still keep a lot of the standards they learn from their parents.   If  parents queue all night for  January sales  they cannot reasonably expect their kids not to do the same.   
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2011, 08:58:21 AM »

My 3 boy's had a good crimbo, with the youngest, 5 year old , learning about choclate and throwing up in the car on the way to the Beach at Dueville.

Well he did say he wanted choclate for tea, dinner and supper, and was very insist-antant, so he learnt an important lesson until next time?

Beautiful mild sunny day so went beach forraging, tide out so got a good couple of buckets (daddy's large coat pockets) of cockles,  the french just looked at us gone out, but then Dueville is Paris by the sea.
Checked that the shells were all closed, cleaned and then immersed in boiling water, all opened immediately then good rinse to cool down then a smiging of vinegar and a supper feast.

One thing about France is the not so consumer oriented Christmas as the UK, we have UK TV but our boy's would rather try to create tree houses or get up to boy stuff somewhere about.
     
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2011, 09:20:46 AM »

I've watched some TV over the holiday period, and during "Poirot" last evening ended up tempted to throw things - every 15 minutes there were several minutes of adverts, leaving questions hanging in the air like "do people actually buy those deeply cr*p sofas?, and "why does Hugh Laurie, who probably earns more than the gross national product of several medium sized countries need to flog us face goop for the unshaven?", and the interminable ads for "alcoholic ginger beer" have switched me off for life from even contemplating purchasing the stuff, lest it pays for even more ads - the only redeeming factor in the ads being the constant hope that the gormless trollop with the oddly shaped back in the synthetic weasel pee advert will manage to prang the Riva into the bridge pier............ ralph
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