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Author Topic: 1956 Generator finally wired in  (Read 1624 times)
linesrg
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« on: January 02, 2012, 06:35:49 PM »

Good Evening All,

For reasons which have become lost in the mists of time the Turner Manufacturing diesel powered generator plant what we have owned for 11 years now has finally been wired in to keep her indoors quiet.

Having finally bought a generator change-over switch from those awfully nice people at TLC along with some suitable cable I wired it in today moving existing stuff around as necessary.

The diesel hasn't run for about 5 years. The whole plant is as sold by Turner Manufacturing in the mid to late 1950's. Having got is started it was switched over and powered the house for 5 minutes before being 'put to bed'.

They don't make them like this anymore.

Regards

Richard


* Generator1.jpg (96.94 KB, 640x480 - viewed 441 times.)

* Switchboard1.jpg (104.75 KB, 640x480 - viewed 441 times.)
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psutherland71
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 09:14:42 PM »

Hi
Good idea to get your genny working with all the power cuts at the moment. Is that the DNO supply cable coming in at the top left and their cut-out at the bottom right? if so I think the cut-out should be before the meter, also if the proteus C.U. is metal the the live and neutral supply cables shouldn't be in seperate holes as this can cause heating in the metal enclosure.

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 09:17:07 PM by psutherland71 » Logged
camillitech
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 12:05:22 AM »

Is that another antique lurking in the background, tell us more  Grin

Cheers, Paul
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SimonHobson
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 08:20:18 PM »

Is that the DNO supply cable coming in at the top left and their cut-out at the bottom right?
Well spotted. An example of what Part P was intended to prevent Shocked
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Anthony
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 11:18:00 PM »

Simon,

part p doesnt apply in scotland, it also doesnt apply to dno equipment.

None of the equipment is sealed,mit maybe that the opnis using this equipment for his own tinkering and the proper meter,cutout are located else where.
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SimonHobson
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2012, 08:56:15 AM »

part p doesnt apply in scotland, it also doesnt apply to dno equipment.
Other rules/regs apply to DNO equipment - and that precludes anyone but the DNO (or someone contracted by them) from tinkering with it. Doesn't alter the fact that (even not being an electrician) there are several things wrong with that installation which make it dangerous. Mostly things that could easily be fixed/avoided with a little bit more care.
Quote
None of the equipment is sealed,mit maybe that the opnis using this equipment for his own tinkering and the proper meter,cutout are located else where.
I guess that is a possibility. However, the cable coming into the meter looks very much like concentric cable which doesn't tend to get used outside of the DNO network. Also, if that is the case, why use the cutout/service head ?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people getting on and doing stuff like this - and I'd love to be in a position to do so myself. But it worries me when I see electrics like that which are dangerous. Apart from the risk to the OP and his family/visitors, it's the sort of thing that leads people to call for tougher regulation which is bad for everyone. Enjoy not having an equivalent to Part P, I hope you stay that way - but dangerous electrics like this are the sort of thing campaigners like to use to justify changing that.
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biff
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2012, 09:27:26 AM »

busy again simon,? stir stir
                         biff
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SimonHobson
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2012, 10:13:01 AM »

Why is it stirring to point out dangers in an electrical installation. I don't know what the skills of the OP are - it could be that he knows what he's doing and this is a "bit of a lash up" to test and it'll be sorted out, or it could be that he really doesn't have a clue that he's got an illegal* and outright dangerous installation.
It wouldn't take a lot to make it safe - but it does need someone to realise something needs doing for that to happen.
Would it be better to for someone to die, and then say "well I didn't like to say anything - Biff might have accused me of stirring" ?

* If it's what I think it is, then it's illegal. If it's what Anthony suggests then it's not illegal - just unsafe.

If there's just one piece of advice I could give anyone, it's don't ever put yourself in a position where you can say "I could have saved a life" - trust me, you do not want to be in that situation.

http://www.safetyxchange.org/training-and-leadership/safety-pure-poetry
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eabadger
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2012, 11:21:09 AM »

if they (the dno) bought tails in like that, it would supprise me, no clips.
what is unsafe, have i missed somthing? as long as changeover is safe and doesnt backfeed, system is "off grid" no?

part p!! cant fit  a new bathroom light fitting, or put a light fitting in your garage.
nanny state, i am all for saftey, but if part p was followed you would be on to council at every turn.
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2012, 05:53:54 PM »

I have been thinking about this situation all day since SimonHobson put his penny worth in.

If linesrg wishes to do what he has done on his private property, then its his responsibility regards safety.
If a young family member messes with the electrics and gets killed its linesrg's responsibility.

The UK has far to many do gooders who want to impose their dictatorial way. eg, soon children will not be able to run as 'they could fall over and then the NHS would have to pick up the bill'. 

For God sake get a life, travel to the rest of the world, see how things really are, give folk the awareness to understand what is safe what is not safe.

However, what gets my goat is so called professional qualified tradesmen, who do a job, take payment for doing a job, and then they are found out to have done substandard work.  fume   
 
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SimonHobson
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 06:04:13 PM »

If linesrg wishes to do what he has done on his private property, then its his responsibility regards safety.
If a young family member messes with the electrics and gets killed its linesrg's responsibility.
I agree. But, we also have a responsibility to linesrg, his children, any visitors etc. As i said, I don't know if he "knows what he's doing" and has taken measures to mitigate the risks, or doesn't know and doesn't realise the dangers - to be perfectly honest, looking at that board I am inclined to the former. So I've pointed out that the installation is dangerous - it is up to linesrg whether he wants to take any notice. I'm not going to "report him" or anything like that, as far as I'm concerned I'm finished on the subject and have done what I think is the duty of anyone in a similar situation and point out the risks.

Suppose it turned out that he was clueless, his children got in and were killed - how would you feel if you knew that you had an opportunity to point out the danger and potentially avoid that death ? Think you can imagine that feeling ? I thought so too at one time.
if they (the dno) bought tails in like that, it would supprise me, no clips.
what is unsafe, have i missed somthing? as long as changeover is safe and doesnt backfeed, system is "off grid" no?
There's more to being safe than "it works" Roll Eyes
But since you asked, and at the risk of Biff getting upset ...

Supply cable has no mechanical fixing - so all strain is taken by the terminals.
Supply cable not terminated correctly.
No cutout/service head at end of supply cable (assuming that is the DNO supply cable) - that's the grey unit with a big fuse down the bottom right where the tails from the switch split to the 2 distribution boards. Just be aware that if it is the DNO suply cable at the top, then it has no RCD, probably has fuses rated way in excess of the cable rating (could be 300, 400, or even 600A fuses (usually shared with neighbours) feeding a 100A rated cable), and is not to be treated without a lot of respect.
Several tails have too much sheath stripped - you're not supposed to be able to see the colours like that.
The earthing is not good - it's safe but there should be one "main earth terminal".
There's what looks like a DNO cutout/service head in the wrong place.
The cable from the generator has no mechanical fixing where it goes into the black terminal unit.
The generator appears to have no earth - the system itself is earthed, but the generator is not and could become live.
Where a generator is used, I believe alternative earthing arrangements need to be made as the DNO could well disconnect their "earth" during engineering works.
There appear to be exposed live terminals on the generator, and there's no cover on the electrical box.
It's hard to see, but the earthing cables look a bit on the small side - I'm not sure about that one.

It wouldn't actually take too much to put right. Put a pair of Henleys where the cutout is now. Put the cutout on the end of the supply cable and fix everything up. Then tidy up the rest - provide mechanical fixings, cover live terminals, tidy up the earths.

Quote
part p!! cant fit  a new bathroom light fitting, or put a light fitting in your garage.
nanny state, i am all for saftey, but if part p was followed you would be on to council at every turn.
You might like this "discussion" then Roll Eyes
http://www.diynot.com/forums/electrics/should-part-p-get-scrapped.305026/

There's a surprising amount you can actually do*, but I agree that Part P is generally a pain to the capable and honest, while being ignored by those it was intended to curb - and thus a failure in what it is intended to achieve.

* I'm actually "fitting" a shower pump in a friends bathroom that we're completely refitting. It's not notifiable because there was one before and Schedule 4 of the Building Regs specifically says I can replace any item<period>. Since there was one there before, I'm replacing it - even though it's a different pump with a different supply arrangement Wink
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Justme
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 06:28:23 PM »


* I'm actually "fitting" a shower pump in a friends bathroom that we're completely refitting. It's not notifiable because there was one before and Schedule 4 of the Building Regs specifically says I can replace any item<period>. Since there was one there before, I'm replacing it - even though it's a different pump with a different supply arrangement Wink

Is that not a "special area" so any & all works need part P or notification?
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biff
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2012, 12:50:33 AM »

lo clockman,
            i already noted simons negative comments on richards instalation,i would not be bothered to rise to the bait.from what i gather,linesrg is mighty more than qualified to correctly install such a set up. simon just want to argue and raise the hackles on all concerned.
   its his nature.he feeds off it.
                              biff
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desperate
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2012, 01:02:34 AM »

Perhaps someone should look at your recent posts biff whistlie

Desp
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Crazy old duffer
biff
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2012, 01:19:36 AM »

your welcome desp,
              at least i do not go around taking the micky out of other peoples efforts,
                                                                      biff
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