Who Killed the Electric Car? FILM

[mikey9]

Sorry - couldn't decide where to put this - Media Watch or Book Reviews.

If anyone hasn't seen this (and you would have to be keen as it isn't shown beyond More 4 or other) - and you wonder why from 1995 - 2006 electric cars from America didn't flourish (or do anything) - then here is the explaination.

I have heard many of the arguments lesewhere - but this concentrates on the GM EV1 and what happenend to them and thier technology - scandalous - but I begin to expect nothing else from the US nowadays.

Available from Lovefilm which we discovered recently - and has a great selection of documentaries - many you heard of but never got a screening near you. Is our main source of entertainment - other than Simon Hobson

Biggest shock was the $4000 subsidy given to electric car owners for purchase up to 2003 - but in 2004 a tax break of £100000 (not a mistype) was offerred to people buying vehicles of 6000lbs+ - think Hummer!!!!!.

You really couldn't make it up - but you often think where would battery technology be today if it hadn't been strangled by big oil - but then I am giving the story away.

[M]

Mikey, for a country near the top as regards electronics and battery tech, those yanks are a little odd.

I've been getting on subscription an american car mag Car & Driver, for about 20 years now. Dates back to my dirty little secret in the early 90's.

I love reading the editorials, usually 3 or 4 each month, and reviews of fuel saving technologies. As you say, you couldn't really make it up, how big oil lobbyist run America.

What I really find interesting, and this is a defence of American car journalism, not politics, is just how angry these editorials get about American fuel policies.

At the height of the fuel price crash (around late 08), several articles called for a 'huge' fuel price tax, yes tax, to ensure prices never went under $3 or even $4 a gallon again. they explained that current policy was simply unfair on the manufactures who had no way of planning ahead.

When fuel prices had hit $5 a gallon a few years earlier, manufactures were stuck with enormous quantities of large cars, and no small cars to meet demand. Ford was slightly ahead of the game as they had just cleared the Euro Focus for sale, and were beginning clearance of the Euro Fiesta, but this takes years due to differing safety design factors - Americans like to test cars straight on like tanks, we like deformable cars.

After the crash, demand for large cars went back up as fuel prices went down.

The magazine articles explained that companies need approx 7 years lead time to design, test and release a new car, but that timescale was impossible without some sort of guarantee on demand (via fuel price stabilisation).

What the American car industry has learn't, is that every time prices peak, foreign companies keep stealing a bit of their market. Little 'rice burners' from Japan, or 'bugs' from Germany in the 70's, through every price peak right up to today.

No wonder Chrysler collapsed, GM needed complete rescue, and Ford teetered.

PS Sales of Smart cars continue to fall (even plummit), but little 4 seat Japanese and euro models are getting more popular.

Also worth noting that almost everything Obama has attempted to do on renewables, has been undermined by the successes of the Republican party over the last few years. I understand that to be considered for Republican nomination at any senior level you are still expected to sign a document declaring doubt on AGW.

Mart.

[mikey9]

Hey Mart - I just sold my dirty little secret.... - 1991 VW camper -20mpg on LPG - but at least we managed under 6k miles p.a. with it - and much of that was moving to holidaying without flying. Now back to 1 vehicle where we will stay till we manage to give that up (Car Pools in the Highlands - could it work??)

Another forum I have been a regular on for 5 years is thesamba.com  (self help group dedicated to all things VW) - with specific interest in Vanagons (the one I just sold). The range of individuals driving these in the US is interesting - they recently did a poll asking what forum users did as a profession.

Aero/mechanical/electrical/R&D engineers
Structural Eng/Architects
Coders -- Sys Analysts etc.
Pilots - Heli/Fire bombers!
Planners/Sureyors/Fishermen/Ex-Military
TEachers - Professors
etc etc

It makes 19 pages of interesting (for some) reading as to what an eclectic mix - with a high proportion of highly educated individuals across the US - driving/maintaining/enjoying 20-30 year old campervans.
Loads/Most of them do their own maintenance - some to amazingly high levels of competence.

It certainly gives me a view of another (better) side of America.....

[Jeremy]

That film was a "must watch" when it first came out for those of us who've been playing with EVs or driving hybrids for the past few years.  It's OK, and does make some valid points, but it fails, IMHO, to show the level of incompetence in the US car industry that drove many of the protectionist measures they, and the oil companies, pushed through.  

The US has a massive technological lag in electric vehicle technology, from battery chemistry through to motor technology.  The Far East has, by comparison, a very significant technological lead and US car companies cannot hope to bridge the technology gap without restricting imports while they catch up or partner with Far Eastern companies to gain access to the technology (and critical resources) they need.

The big shock started with Toyota, really, back in the mid-nineties when the Prius project started.  Hybrid technology is probably a dead end and of little value in terms of reducing emissions, but as a marketing technique to get people used to the idea of partial electric power and better still, as a way to drive investment in energy storage and motor technology, it has been pretty successful.  When the second generation Prius started to sell in large volumes in the US, car companies there started to realise that they had been stitched up and simply didn't have the knowledge, or access to IP, to immediately compete, so they started another round of dirty tricks (the infamous dust to dust report concluding that a Hummer was more environmentally friendly than a Prius, for example).  Many believe this stuff, until they are shown the evidence that the data came from the US motor and oil industry..............

The big worry for the US is that it lacks the IP for much of the best EV technology and also lacks the basic natural resources.  For example, the most efficient motors currently available use neodymium magnets and China pretty much control much of the worlds neodymium.  The most efficient motors are Japanese or Australian designs, so the IP isn't in the US.  The largest producers of high capacity batteries are in China, Taiwan and Korea.  The power semiconductors needed for motor controllers are largely dominated by Japanese designs manufactured in other Far Eastern countries.  

The US is simply miles behind (as is much of Europe) when it comes to electric vehicle technology, even now.  Nearly six years after that film was made the US car industry still cannot hope to compete with the Far East on electric or hybrid cars; they can only survive by maintaining the demand for gas-guzzlers, as that's all they can produce domestically.  Things may change, but it will take many years for the US to close the big technology gap that's opened up.

[M]

Mikey - psst. want to see some dirty photos?

Given the nature of this forum, I was tempted to click the 'adult content', rather than 'family friendly' button.

Love of my life, till wifey arrived. Sadly she missed the monster by about 6 months so never got to see it, and can't even attempt to comprehend the way my heart leaps each time I hear the distinctive low rpm rumble of an inefficient Yankie V8. Possibly the most beautiful sound I've ever heard. Still can't resist switching over to Bullitt every time 'that' car chase is due. As an aside, regarding VW's, am I the only one to notice the same bottle green bug that gets overtaken about 5 times during said car chase?

Mart.

[sam123]

Sorry - couldn't decide where to put this - Media Watch or Book Reviews.

If anyone hasn't seen this (and you would have to be keen as it isn't shown beyond More 4 or other) - and you wonder why from 1995 - 2006 electric cars from America didn't flourish (or do anything) - then here is the explaination.

I have heard many of the arguments lesewhere - but this concentrates on the GM EV1 and what happenend to them and thier technology - scandalous - but I begin to expect nothing else from the US nowadays.

Available from Lovefilm which we discovered recently - and has a great selection of documentaries - many you heard of but never got a screening near you. Is our main source of entertainment - other than Simon Hobson

Biggest shock was the $4000 subsidy given to electric car owners for purchase up to 2003 - but in 2004 a tax break of £100000 (not a mistype) was offerred to people buying vehicles of 6000lbs+ - think Hummer!!!!!.

You really couldn't make it up - but you often think where would battery technology be today if it hadn't been strangled by big oil - but then I am giving the story away.

Video is available to watch here: http://vimeo.com/19863733

Cheers, Sami

[Heinz]

Video is available to watch here: http://vimeo.com/19863733

Cheers, Sami

Very interesting. Thanks...

Heinz