observations and queries on combined ups and small inverter.

[Andy the Inverter Man]

billi,simon and andy,
                    thank you all for your help.it will take me a while to digest this but all your points are understandable. there seem to be an advantage in such a setup.
 andy, i have had a few of these little double conversion pulsars and they have all been exellent cold starters,much better than the apc 1500va ups,more reliable. this occasion would have been the first time one refused to cold start but then again it has been laid up for over a year in not too dry circumstances but i am kind of lucky like that.
 in the first picture on the top right hand side,is a 12 volt 12 amp intelligent battery charger.this would be among one of the smartest pieces of  design on the market. it will accept most ac around 200-240volts and charge batteries really quick,the charging unit is obviously the modern switch charger.it is as light as a feather and very easy carried.it has 3 orange lights giving the state of the battery ,a cut out and a switch to slow to 6amps for slow charging.i have a few of these and they have been in constant use for over 4 years now,an exellent buy around £30.00.
  i have no connection with the makers but just saying that they are an exellent piece of kit.
                                                                                                        biff

The set up is inefficient.  You'd be better off with one UPS/inverter.

APC Smart 1500 UPSs have true cold start (as do most UPSs these days).
If you have a APC smart UPS that doesn't want to cold start there are a few tricks you can try.  Ask if you want to know them.

Some UPSs, such as the Pulsars, are designed not to cold start unless they have been recently powered up on mains.
This is so they can be shipped with no chance of the starting up in transit.

Now by "recent", I meant last few months, but it is not impossible they would cold start after a year.

I am not saying one make is better than the other.  I'm simply saying some UPSs are designed differently from others when it comes to cold starting.

I have a number of double conversion MGE UPSs I would like to shift cheap!   
But their battery voltage might be a problem for you guys as it is 84Vdc     

Regards
Andy the UPS, Inverter & Battery Man

[biff]

 andy
guy is trying to find a good home for one at 90volts,its in free to good home and has had no takers for a few months now.
     i think they need to be either 12,24,36,48,96 and 120 volt to match turbines and battery configuration,anything outside that  can be difficult to match up.
 on my first pic,where the little ups,s are sitting on a piece of ply,you probely recognise the stack of silver boxs,under the ply, wrapped in the transparent wrapper, they are each 120 volt @2,7kw,exellent coldstarters,extremely reliable but very limited market.apart  from use as a stanby inverter for a 2kw x 120 volt turbine,yet they do fill a nitch.
     i think i would love a pack of lovely big juicy batteries if i could lay my hands on them,a pallet load to start with.
                                                                                                   biff

[Andy the Inverter Man]

andy
guy is trying to find a good home for one at 90volts,its in free to good home and has had no takers for a few months now.
     i think they need to be either 12,24,36,48,96 and 120 volt to match turbines and battery configuration,anything outside that  can be difficult to match up.
 on my first pic,where the little ups,s are sitting on a piece of ply,you probely recognise the stack of silver boxs,under the ply, wrapped in the transparent wrapper, they are each 120 volt @2,7kw,exellent coldstarters,extremely reliable but very limited market.apart  from use as a stanby inverter for a 2kw x 120 volt turbine,yet they do fill a nitch.
     i think i would love a pack of lovely big juicy batteries if i could lay my hands on them,a pallet load to start with.
                                                                                                   biff

Biff
Yeah, I know it is an odd voltage. 
My offer was a bit tongue in cheek.
Having said that, I wonder if someone will ask "can I run 2 inverters off 1 battery bank?"
So if someone's turbine is 96V, could they use 2 inverters, 1 of 84v and 1 of 12v.
I wouldn't recommend it though.

I do have 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84, 96 & 120Vdc UPSs.

They look like the power modules from R3000XR UPSs.
If so I might be interested in them at the right price.
Like the MGE's they only cold start if recently started on mains.
They are neither line interactive or double conversion technology.  They are more switch mode type technology.  And not too reliable.  I have a pile broken ones.  Also got loads of serial cards for them.
Do you have the battery packs for them (can be empty)?

Regards
Andy the UPS, Inverter & Battery Man

[biff]

i know a few people using these for running a washing machine and they proved reliable and economic.i dont have the battery module for them.they are all wired to take the external batts.i do have spare battery modules for symmetra rms,s though. 4 in good condition. but they are very heavy.
 thats the problem living over here,,everything cost so much in carriage.
   if you can lay your hands on nice fresh unabused symmetra power modules i would be very intrested,especially the 2 brains. i regards these as really good kit.
                 biff

[SimonHobson]

Having said that, I wonder if someone will ask "can I run 2 inverters off 1 battery bank?"
So if someone's turbine is 96V, could they use 2 inverters, 1 of 84v and 1 of 12v.
I wouldn't recommend it though.

Indeed, it would be a quick way to kill batteries.

[Andy the Inverter Man]

i know a few people using these for running a washing machine and they proved reliable and economic.i dont have the battery module for them.they are all wired to take the external batts.i do have spare battery modules for symmetra rms,s though. 4 in good condition. but they are very heavy.
 thats the problem living over here,,everything cost so much in carriage.
   if you can lay your hands on nice fresh unabused symmetra power modules i would be very intrested,especially the 2 brains. i regards these as really good kit.
                 biff

I assume it is the power module from a R3000XR UPS?
But I've done about 150 of the R3000XR UPSs.  I had a pile of about 12 to 15 non-working ones.  So getting on for a 10% failure rate.
Not ideal for motors (inductive loads).  The heavy transformer line interactive UPSs would be better.

If you do buy R3000XR UPSs in the future and have the batt packs spare let me know.  Are you in the UK?

No Symmetra RM modules.  I have quite a few of the power and intelligence Symmetra modules for the tower 16kva model.  Mostly need repairing though.

Regards
Andy the UPS, Inverter & Battery Man

[Andy the Inverter Man]

Having said that, I wonder if someone will ask "can I run 2 inverters off 1 battery bank?"
So if someone's turbine is 96V, could they use 2 inverters, 1 of 84v and 1 of 12v.
I wouldn't recommend it though.

Indeed, it would be a quick way to kill batteries.

I was being devil's advocate! 

But technically it could be done.  You'd need some electronics to balance the charging between the batts.

Regards
Andy the UPS, Inverter & Battery Man

[SimonHobson]

I was being devil's advocate! 

But technically it could be done.  You'd need some electronics to balance the charging between the batts.

I thought you were, but I figured it might be too subtle for some who might want to try it without knowing what it'll do to their batteries.

[Andy the Inverter Man]

I was being devil's advocate! 

But technically it could be done.  You'd need some electronics to balance the charging between the batts.

I thought you were, but I figured it might be too subtle for some who might want to try it without knowing what it'll do to their batteries.

What we need is a Devil's Advocate Smiley!
Anyone got one?
Andy
PS: Simon, I haven't got any big Symmetra UPSs in stock but will let you know when I do.