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MarkB
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 10:08:38 PM » |
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Seems that they're still trying to rustle up an investor after having a demonstration product for 2 years. Sounds to me like there are some drawbacks to this design that mean it's not as attractive as it may appear. If it was as good as claimed there'd be companies crawling all over it - to have control of the patents if nothing else. |
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Ivan
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 01:14:28 AM » |
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Very clever piece of kit. Good to see people thinking entirely out of the box. It looks like it needs a bit of work on balancing and I'm not sure it quite qualifies for the 'lower emissions' that the voice over talked about, given the smoke coming out of the test rig. High power to weight ratio sounds like it might be the more important characteristic.
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Navitron Member of Staff www.epogee.co.uk - Solar PV & Solar Thermal Training / MCS |
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RobNute
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 07:02:57 AM » |
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I think you have to look at this in the same way that we can look back at early car engines and see the progress that has been made on them, imagine if this was properly developed to its maximum, it could have its place. I think his prototype is just home made from mild steel, pretty good effort I reckon. If nothing else it may lead to other ideas. One of which springs to mind, why can we not use high head hydro to run something like this, or even a traditional piston engine? Was just thinking the other day after a trip on a steam boat that all an engine needs is a source of pressure, be it steam expanding or combustion, why not high pressure water? I am sure there are a million reasons, lets av' em...
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dhaslam
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 10:25:26 AM » |
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Simple engines could be used with compressed air that could be stored using intermittent renewable sources. Also if construction is reasonably easy they could have an application in developing countries for tractors etc. Lubrication and compression seals could be a problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_energy_storage |
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RIT
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2012, 02:04:20 PM » |
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Simple engines could be used with compressed air that could be stored using intermittent renewable sources. Also if construction is reasonably easy they could have an application in developing countries for tractors etc. Lubrication and compression seals could be a problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_energy_storageIn terms of a compressed air driven engine this is as near as anyone seems to have got. http://www.mdi.lu/english/Lots of talk and demo models over the years, but no production line yet. I'm not sure about the idea of the car, but the engine plus a few air tanks could work very well in place of a large set of batteries for off-grid storage. Its a bit of a shame, but I would like to see the cars first turn up on the road and then at a scrap yard so I can get the parts cheap  |
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noah
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 02:52:13 PM » |
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Air powered car might be great for short didtances in South of France in summer. As by product of expanding gas is extreme cold, can`t see it being of much use in UK winter.
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M
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 03:11:36 PM » |
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Saw a different air car video, probably 10 years ago now. It was a self built system on a taxi, can't remember the country. I think I'm right in understanding that it was basically a very simple steam engine design, with the air replacing the steam. Taxi had 2 large air bottles underneath (probably 60kg empty, each).
The beauty, as I saw it, was that this was technically an electric car, as the bottles were refilled, or topped up at garage air compressors, or via it's own compressor plugged into mains. However, unlike an electric battery car, the tanks could be re-filled very fast.
Cold bottles / tanks no joke. Used to play a lot of tournament paintball, using CO2 bottles. In cold weather it was easy to freeze a bottle down if you fired a couple of hundred balls in a minute or two. No easy solution other than to hide, strip off gloves and try to warm the bottle back up, then play conservatively. Damn those bottles got cold!
Mart.
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RIT
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 03:58:14 PM » |
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Saw a different air car video, probably 10 years ago now. It was a self built system on a taxi, can't remember the country. I think I'm right in understanding that it was basically a very simple steam engine design, with the air replacing the steam. Taxi had 2 large air bottles underneath (probably 60kg empty, each).
The beauty, as I saw it, was that this was technically an electric car, as the bottles were refilled, or topped up at garage air compressors, or via it's own compressor plugged into mains. However, unlike an electric battery car, the tanks could be re-filled very fast.
Cold bottles / tanks no joke. Used to play a lot of tournament paintball, using CO2 bottles. In cold weather it was easy to freeze a bottle down if you fired a couple of hundred balls in a minute or two. No easy solution other than to hide, strip off gloves and try to warm the bottle back up, then play conservatively. Damn those bottles got cold!
Mart.
It may have been the same company - they have been talking a long time, with idea after idea. As for the issue of cold on the tank(s) it maybe one of the reason they focus on places like Spain, it's a car that could offer air-con but not a lot of heating. |
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 04:55:43 PM by RIT »
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noah
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 04:41:14 PM » |
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Taxi had 2 large air bottles underneath (probably 60kg empty, each). I would think that to go more than a few hundred yards the air would have to be compressed to a few hundred bar, rather than the 10 bar achievable by yer average garage compressor. |
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RIT
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2012, 05:00:53 PM » |
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Taxi had 2 large air bottles underneath (probably 60kg empty, each). I would think that to go more than a few hundred yards the air would have to be compressed to a few hundred bar, rather than the 10 bar achievable by yer average garage compressor. They currently quote 300 bar as the working pressure for their tanks, tested up to 700 bar. |
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spaces
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2012, 07:14:08 PM » |
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I've kept an eye on Guy Negre's air car business, it seemed to be a lot of hype from the start, in my opinion. I think he received a lot of attention since he was an engine engineer, so it was assumed he would know his onions having designed aircraft and F1 engines. The following is copied from wikipedia: As of August 2009 there was no mentioning of the prototype or planned production of the TATA OneCAT on the TATA or MDI homepages. In December 2009 Tata's vice president of engineering systems confirmed that the limited range and low engine temperatures were causing difficulties. Meanwhile all links, articles and archives relative to MDI have disappeared from Tata's website.In 2004 Negre's own air engine with constant torque was replaced with a different design, variable torque engine to reduce transmission inefficiences as well as power use when stationary. Range has continued to be a problem, despite lightweight constructions and low friction. It appears things are going nowhere at the moment, a shame, since I enjoy anything new when it comes to the motor vehicle, whose development effectively came to halt several decades ago. The modern car is pretty much the same as Citroen's 1934 range, often with the engine and transmission turned through 90 o a la Issigonis (1959 BMC Mini.) What people constantly forget with new 'eco' vehicles is what matters is the quantity of energy required to power it at a given speed up a given gradient. So often new designs using new forms of propulsion are relatively efficient because of the low mass and low rolling resistance. A small on-board ICE generator used to power (in-hub) electric motors to propel the vehicle is much more efficient than current hybrids - but most unlikely this will appear for as long as people can still afford to fuel 40mpg cars. My preference is for hydrostatic transmission. Mentions of how this can halve fuel consumption go back for decades. Citroen researched hydrostatic/hydraulic transmission for three decades and cars travelled over a million km with it fitted, before its new Peugeot masters killed the research in 1974. Hydraulic motors weigh around a sixth of equivalent output electric motors, hydraulic accumulators are regarded as being about three times more efficient than batteries and can store massive amounts of charge quickly. See these links: http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/346837/Re-Hydraulic-Hybrids-Race-Against-Electricshttp://pigeonsnest.co.uk/stuff/trilink/trilink.html |
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fred
Newbie
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Posts: 19
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2012, 07:45:14 PM » |
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I've got an idea that could revolutionise the car industry, a car powered by empty beer cans. Aluminium is, of course, one of the most reactive substances known to man. So reactive, in fact, it will strip the oxygen molecules out of water leaving the hydrogen to be used as fuel.
The plan is to design a car with a dispenser for cans of beer, obtainable quite cheaply from any local supermarket. The driver then drinks the beer and deposits the empty can down a chute to be processed into aluminium oxide and hydrogen. A passenger or two drinking beer too will greatly increase power output.
The only drawback I can see is that in order to get enough power to drive the car without the driver going over the drink driving limits the choice of beer will have to be restricted to imported Australian lager.
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renewablejohn
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2012, 10:01:17 PM » |
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