FIT for non MCS power - i know its a low rate, but how would you claim it?

[julian]

It is likly that we will be running a grid tied CHP system in the future.

I know that i should be able to claim ROCs, but there will certainly be times when our production is greater than our demand.

I have been looking into (and following the threads here) on electonics to determin the import/export nature, and, possibly, control the engine accordingly, however, there will, im sure, still be some exported energy.


I dont know, but ive been told that some meters 'flag' exports, and (for some reason) the power gen companies get upset....

If i want to do it all proper, and above board, what's the procedure?

I would imagine that i would have to actually have an export meter fitted (which would probably cost more than all the energy we will ever export!) but, if what i hear about meters 'flagging' export, i guess ill have to do somthing?

Thanks, Julian

[clivejo]

Unfortunately, that's the disadvantage of the current FIT's scheme.  If your system isn't MCS installed your clobbered with a big hammer.  My supplier wants to charge me for an export meter and to upgrade the line coming in (which doesn't need it) all at my cost, so its just not worth it for me.  Its stupid and goes against all I believe in!  Id be very happy just winding back the meter and just reducing my bills but they aren't happy with that either!  Apparently its fraud!  But when they take extra money out of my account each month, that's not fraud, its credit !!  Its not a very fair system and puts a lot of small scale producers off the idea.  Of course there is always the 'keep quiet' option and feed excess back into the grid winding back the meter and as long as the net result is the electric company charging you, no questions get asked.  I know several people doing this for years and never been approached about it.

[julian]

Unfortunately, that's the disadvantage of the current FIT's scheme.  If your system isn't MCS installed your clobbered with a big hammer.  My supplier wants to charge me for an export meter and to upgrade the line coming in (which doesn't need it) all at my cost, so its just not worth it for me.  Its stupid and goes against all I believe in!  Id be very happy just winding back the meter and just reducing my bills but they aren't happy with that either!  Apparently its fraud!  But when they take extra money out of my account each month, that's not fraud, its credit !!  Its not a very fair system and puts a lot of small scale producers off the idea.  Of course there is always the 'keep quiet' option and feed excess back into the grid winding back the meter and as long as the net result is the electric company charging you, no questions get asked.  I know several people doing this for years and never been approached about it.

Thats only possible if you have an old 'spinning disc' mechanical meter though.

Unfortunatly, the property we are trying to move to has been 'upgraded' : (

[clivejo]

You will need to contact your supplier, if they anything like mine it will take weeks just to speak to someone who knows what your talking about!!

[JohnS]

I dont know, but ive been told that some meters 'flag' exports, and (for some reason) the power gen companies get upset....

Modern meters often flash rEd, meaning reverse Energy detected.  This is so that meter readers can see if they have been tampered with.  Of course, nearly all meters for PV installations will show this.  But at least the meter reader can see why.  If you don't have an approved system, they may question it.

John

[julian]

Im planning on claiming ROCs, so, when you say "approved" (which the system will have to be to claim ROCs) do you meen approved in this sense, or MCS cetified (which it will never be)?

Thanks, Julian

[clivejo]

There are still certain requirements for grid connect.  ie inverter disconnects/shutdown on grid fail, isolation switches etc,

[julian]

My GTI is a G83 approved unit (SMA Sunny boy, that ill set into wind mode)

[clivejo]

My GTI is a G83 approved unit (SMA Sunny boy, that ill set into wind mode)

  Cant just take your word on that, some guy/girl in a hard hat and high vis has to come out and tick wee boxes and poke and prod, all at your expense may I add!  Sometimes you need a few of these paper pushers to tick boxes because one of them mightn't be qualified to tick one of the boxes and has to get someone who can!  

[Ted]

If it is a gas micro-CHP system then it falls under MCS/FiTs for up to <2kW. You'll get 10.5p per kWh for all generated electric irrespective of whether you export any or not - and an extra 3.1p for 50% deemed export with no export meter.

If it is fueled by anything other than gas then you can register for ROCs direct with OFGEM. If you are generating less than 1000 kWh a year then it probably isn't worth it. Once you have the ROCs (the number you get depends on the fuel you are using, you get 2 per MWh for B100) you have to sell them.  You start the registration process by following the Register link here - https://www.renewablesandchp.ofgem.gov.uk/

For up to 16A per phase capacity you will fall under G83 for the grid connection. You just need a competent electrician to connect things up and submit the paperwork to your DNO. You should also advise your electricity supplier but they will almost certainly think that you want to set up a FiTs contract with them, at least initially.

[julian]

The setup will be biomass fueled.  Basically a clone of Dick Jotec's system - Lister CS + ex wind turbine PMA + G83 GTI

Ill be able to claim double ROCs so long as i keep to pure waste biomass (veg, rather than biodiesel) - which is what im intending.

The ROCs bit is not somthing im concerned about - as i say, my system is identical to Dick's (appart from a different make of PMA, evreything else is the same!)

...its just the export bit that i can see causing issues.

I was expecting the FIT to be somthing *under* 4p/unit but im more concerned about the issues with feeding in at all, rather than the price per unit - i wont be able to avoid feeding in at some points, although itll never be a significant current.

[Ted]

Just get the G83 paperwork to your DNO and inform your electricity supplier that you will be exporting, then you will be covered. You probably need to check that your meter isn't set to add any export to the import register.

[julian]

I spoke with LoCo2 energy the other day, and explained my plan of biomass powered CHP.

I asked them if there would be an issue that i would be feeding in power at certain times - i mentioned that my inverter was a 2.5kw G83 unit, so there would never be much ampage going back.

"No problem" they said.


Then i asked them about claiming the 3.whatever pence per unit feed in for this power....

At this point there suddenly needs to be all sorts of works done on the house supply, etc.etc.

(whilst it was fine to carry the ampage before i was asking about getting paid for the export!)


I dont realy understand why a simply change of meter couldnt be the answer, or, even, a simple sum subtracting my CHP 'total generation meter' amount (which is, of course, a certified unit, and what the ROCs depend on) from the property import meter.

[clivejo]

From what I've seen they just want to make it as hard as possible for you to get paid for exporting.  If they create a huge hassle for you and it costs you more in 'charges' than to export a few kW you will hopefully not bother like so many other small producers.  To be honest, I can totally see why people are heating water or dumping excess power, its just not worth the time, effort and expense to deal with the power companies.

[GavinA]

could be worth just installing an export meter and giving them the serial number. It might baffle them enough to let it on the system.