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russ_fae_fyvie
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« on: January 25, 2012, 01:20:07 PM » |
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The longer we are living with the power/heating system, the more questions I am coming up with !
This time its about the Pellet Boiler we have.
Having jumped through all sorts of hoops to be 'green' and off grid at the beginning, you probably know we have a 9kw Biotech Pellet Boiler.
I just would like some thoughts, generally, on the use of Pellet Boilers and the like compared to the run of the mill Boilers (I suppose in our case it would have to be LPG or something similar as we are miles from any gas lines) or any other suggestions ?
Now I know the various arguments for and against each type of boiler but I would like your thoughts on them.
We had all sorts of issues with the supply, installation and general initial setup of our Boiler. Now that we seem to have settled down, I am finding that getting normal services, etc, done on the boiler, we are restricted to basically 1 company. Only because they are the only ones 'qualified' to do the service and sort out the problems when they come along. Needless to say we feel a bit hamstrung as they are the only ones we can contact so there is no competition.
If we had an LPG (or similar) type of boiler instead, do you think we'd have the same problems ? Any ideas on something we coudl ge tin its place or is the fact we are isolated, is that going to restrict what we can do anyway.
I haven't got a clue on how much an LPG boiler (for example) would cost to run, but at the moment we are using about 1 x 20kg bag of pellets a day (at about £5 per bag) to heat the underfloor heating and DHW. So about £150 per month.
Is that reasonable and if so, how do you think it would campare to LPG ?
The reason I'm asking is because we feel we are at the mercy of one solitary company to provide backup and we feel vunerable in case, for whatever reason, the boiler dies or gets poorly. At the moment it has been asking for a service but I haven't had an answer back from the company in the week I've been asking for them to contact me to sort a date out.
With the hassle we had at the beginning, we are seriously thinking about replacing it so that we can get something that will give us a better back up.
I am really getting dissalusioned with this 'green' malakry, not only has the Pellet Boiler been a nightmare, we originally wanted a Biodiesel Generator but not only couldn't we get a reliable one, the one and only supplier of biodiesel up here tripled his prices as we started looking, so we just went to Red Diesel.
So much for trying to be green !!!
ANyway thoughts on the boiler situation would be appreciated.
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« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 01:35:58 PM by russ_fae_fyvie »
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Sunny Island 3324, Sunny Boy 1700, Rolls Battery Bank, SDMO Backup Genny, 1.44kW PV Array, 1kW Futurenergy Turbine, now more grey hair !
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 02:00:58 PM » |
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I always feel safer if I have a backup system of somekind. In your case replacing the pellet boiler with an LPG one might just be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. You might be better off having both and running whichever is least expensive (or when there are problems whichever is working). If you change from being dependant on one company to just being dependant on another company you may not be any better off. I have no idea about whether LPG or oil would be cheaper in your location, but if looking for a backup boiler I do know second hand oil boilers can be picked up fairly cheaply - totally unsure about the other costs involved where youa re though.
Do you get any heat off the generator or is it purely used for electric generation?
Paul
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dhaslam
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 02:43:29 PM » |
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Pellet boilers are more troublesome than other boilers. The problem is that they have to have at least one motor close to the combustion chamber in order to feed the pellets and the motor or electrics are subject to premature failure.
An alternative might be a small gasifying wood boiler, even though the fuel would be a bit more difficult to handle. Also because there is no automation of the fuel feed there would need to be a store to have some heat in the morning. There are some wood boilers that don't need a fan to operate and they can have gravity feed to the buffer tank.
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Ev
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Posts: 46
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 03:03:26 PM » |
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I can appreciate how you feel when you say you've been waiting a week for a reply from your installer. When looking into getting a pellet boiler for our heating (radiators) and DHW, I had fun and games finding a reliable installer. I contacted over eight different installers, I narrowed it down to two potential candidates. (Of the rest, one installer tried to convince me that I would be better with an ASHP - not an option here I'm afraid; one gave me a quote for someone else's house and didn't come back with a quote for my house; two came, saw and were never heard of again; most of the others promised to call back or email back but never bothered!) When we finally decided on the installer, they have turned out to be good so far. However, like yourself, they are the only one in the area for that boiler. It seems to be that up here (we're in Fife) there are quite a few installers but each one supplies a different make of boiler! Is your boiler still under warranty and if not, would it not be possible for another company to do the work that's required?
Because I had no idea of what our heating requirements would be (couldn't compare it with what we already had as we used an older style oil fired Rayburn for heat and hot water previously - very inefficient and drank oil by the gallon) I used Encraft's property heating calculator to work out a rough estimate of what size boiler we'd need and to give us an idea of the amount of pellets that we'd use. (I didn't want to appear like a complete numpty when discussing boiler size etc.) Maybe you could try this calculator to see if your usage makes sense as it takes into account house construction, insulation, hot water usage etc. in its calculations. If it's any help to you, in the coldest days so far, we have used about 15kg per day running our 12kW boiler but as our house and hot water usage is probably quite different to yours it's not really much of a comparison for you.
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kotpat
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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 09:39:12 PM » |
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Hi can you tell who the installer was and the boiler manufacture kotpat@btinternet.comthe reason I ask is our boiler and the next next door are having new boiler due to the installer design being wrong cheers |
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andrewindevon
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 09:49:39 AM » |
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Just playing about with the encraft calculator. Oddly it suggests a passive house, same size as ours will need circa 20,000 kWh a year. We aren't anywhere near passive house but our energy use is half that.
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SimonHobson
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 08:29:43 PM » |
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Don't know anything about prices, other than it's well known for being "a lot more" than mains gas ...
Most gas boilers are available (or convertable) for LPG - I believe it's mainly just a jet change but otherwise there is no difference in operation. Anyone competent to work on gas boilers can therefore work on them. Gas boilers are also really cheap to buy, and should be fairly cheap to install unless you have other system considerations that complicate it.
Yes, teh gas supplier will own the tank, and you will therefore be tied to them for your supplies. But the law changed a few years ago because this effectively made people as tied to their gas supplier as you are finding yourself tied to your pellet boiler people. Now, you have a legal right (at least in England, dunno about the rest of the UK) to switch supplier and the tank will transfer ownership - before the outgoing supplier could hold you to a ten year contract and the tank would have to be changed. There may be a minimum period before you can switch (2 years), but after that you are free to change if your current supplier "isn't competitive".
In theory you can buy your own tank, but my experience enquiring about road fuel supplies suggests that some of the big names will not fill any tank they don't own regardless of it having a certificate etc.
As Countrypaul suggests, having two options can be a good idea - but if you don't use a lot of gas then you'll probably find the price is hiked to cover the tank rental. it should not be complicated to have two boilers on a system.
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Philip R
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 09:25:30 PM » |
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I do not know what typical tank rental charges work out as, but you get stung by the power company for having mains gas and electricity to the tune of £100 + for each utility per annum.
Dare I say it, but if your gas consumption is really quite low, using multiple 47kg propane bottles may prove to be the most economicoverall. where the standing charge is minimal, but a slight premium in the kWh price. The trouble is with Calor, is that they have taken over most of the smaller bottled gas suppliers and now have a virtual monopoly.
PhilipR
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spaces
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2012, 12:29:32 AM » |
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If you're worried about/don't have the money, then create a super-insulated room or area of the house which is heated by a wood burning stove. I know people who live in what most would call a stately home, enormous place, but in winter they exist in the kitchen - huge, with a rapacious massive fireplace - and a relatively tiny, perhaps 20'x16' drawing room which is uber-insulated and heated by a tiny wood stove, the flu pipe exiting through the window. They've probably less disposable income than some on benefits... They're of German/Czech lineage, moved to the UK in WW2 and for all the apparent grandeur of their property are very humble and know how to live well but frugally.
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MarkB
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 10:11:23 AM » |
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Just playing about with the encraft calculator. Oddly it suggests a passive house, same size as ours will need circa 20,000 kWh a year. We aren't anywhere near passive house but our energy use is half that.
A consumption of 20,000kWh per year in a PassivHaus means a house with a floor area of at least 1300m2 (limit is 15kWh/m2.a). How big is your house? |
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