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Author Topic: Complete redo of heating system, where to begin?  (Read 1605 times)
billi
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« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2012, 11:54:49 AM »

Sam     

Andrew  has two  heatpumps

 
Quote
It presently has DHW provided by a small (0.7 kw) air source heat pump with immersion backup.  Space heating is provided by a separate Air to Air heat pump (0.7 kw) working through a MHRV system.
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
sam123
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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2012, 12:34:38 PM »

Sam     

Andrew  has two  heatpumps

 
Quote
It presently has DHW provided by a small (0.7 kw) air source heat pump with immersion backup.  Space heating is provided by a separate Air to Air heat pump (0.7 kw) working through a MHRV system.

I wouldn't be 100% sure. Exhaust air heat pump normally do DHW+ventilation and when DHW is done, it dump rest of the heat to incoming air. I try to figure out what brand Andrew is using, because just putting incorrect settings makes it working uneconomically. Just speculation....until we get facts.
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andrewindevon
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« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2012, 07:16:19 AM »

It is 2 completely separate systems Sam. Thanks for the interest but I really don't want to go into those systems and their problems, I'm looking for ideas/suggestions for what to put in their place. Although... I've run a straw poll of the 2 colleagues of mine that I know have heat pumps.  One has family of 4 using a GSHP in a 1 year old house - 10,000 kWh a year.  The other 2 professionals with an ASHP running radiators - 8,000 kWh.  So perhaps 10,000 kWh of electricity is just normal for heat pumps.  facepalm
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knighty
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« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2012, 08:42:01 AM »

it's hard to compare different houses because they are all so vastly different, form some houses 10,000kwh/year is tiny, for others it's massive


if you have an MHRV and are surviving with a 0.7kw exhaust air heat pump then your house must be very efficient

heat pumps are best used if you can use low level heat to warm your house - underfloor heating is the best example but massively oversized radiators etc.. can work well too


with a home as efficient as yours it seams crazy to me not to use solar thermal - you'll have 'free' heating and hot water for 9 months of the year

chances are your heat pump has hardly run all summer (do you have bills to track your usage?)

and then once winter has hit they've struggled to provide the heating/hot water you need to are running flat out


it's hard to really know what's going on without more numbers to work with... but I just did some quick maths and....
if you're using 10,000kwh/year
if 700khw is for the MHRV
and 3,300 is for other use (fridge/tv etc...) (just short of 10kwh/day)
then that would leave you with 7000kwh for the heat pumps (combined).... which is enough to run both of them 24/7 for 150days Shocked



it might be best if you buy a data logger to track your power usage before you start your renovations... at least then you will know exactly what's going on..... it would be a terrible shame to have all that work done and then fine out that the main problem was elsewhere (lacking in insulation, air leaks etc...)


I don;t really know much about data loggers.... but I'm sure someone here could advise you

data really is kind here... and will help you pinpoint exactly where all your power is going!
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andrewindevon
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2012, 10:24:42 AM »

Quote
if you have an MHRV and are surviving with a 0.7kw exhaust air heat pump then your house must be very efficient

Surviving is about the right word... got down to 13c upstairs before I relented and turned the heat pump on....

Having been harsh with the MHRV HP this year (only been on with air temps below 3c) and the PV generation and swapping our most used lights out for LEDs... we are looking like saving almost 1,500 kWh.  That said I went away for 3 days and the rest of the family used 110 kWh (everything turned back on!). Wonder if you can get a lock for the heating controls  fight
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renewablejohn
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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2012, 10:30:42 AM »


 .... or a masonry  stove  


Oh, exciting.

Don't do yours before I do mine.

Or, should we embark on the adventure together?

Richard

Not quite a masonry stove

I am intrigued at the moment with a heating rocket stove which a guy has installed in a greenhouse but others have installed in houses. Its really the very low fuel consumption that appeals and the very low flue gas exit temperature.  Should I be looking at a masonry  stove instead.

http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 10:41:06 AM by renewablejohn » Logged
Richard Owen
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« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2012, 10:31:47 AM »


 .... or a masonry  stove 


Oh, exciting.

Don't do yours before I do mine.

Or, should we embark on the adventure together?

Richard

Not quite a masonry stove

I am intrigued at the moment with a heating rocket stove which a guy has installed in a greenhouse but others have installed in houses. Its really the very low fuel consumption that appeals and the very low flue gas exit temperature.  Should I be looking at a masonry  stove instead.

Time for a new thread?
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billi
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« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2012, 11:42:17 AM »

 Smiley nice thanks ..... rocket stove .....    had a quick google picture search   and found one , my Girl would certainly love  



Perhaps i wouldnot have the fridge  so close even with insulation in  between

http://www.flickr.com/photos/onyone/5550465744/sizes/l/in/photostream/

« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 11:45:35 AM by billi » Logged

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
sam123
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« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2012, 12:13:43 PM »

It is 2 completely separate systems Sam. Thanks for the interest but I really don't want to go into those systems and their problems, I'm looking for ideas/suggestions for what to put in their place. Although... I've run a straw poll of the 2 colleagues of mine that I know have heat pumps.  One has family of 4 using a GSHP in a 1 year old house - 10,000 kWh a year.  The other 2 professionals with an ASHP running radiators - 8,000 kWh.  So perhaps 10,000 kWh of electricity is just normal for heat pumps.  facepalm

Hi

That doesn“t make any sense. One house with exhaust air pump here in Finland had previous year consumption of 35000kWh and just changing one number in control menu he get estimate 13-15000kWh savings for this year.

If I were you, I would make present pumps to work as good as possible, and if nothing can be done, then I would seek next option.

But it is your business...


January in Devon: http://classic.wunderground.com/history/airport/EGTE/2012/1/1/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

January here: http://classic.wunderground.com/history/airport/efjy/2012/1/1/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA


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Baz
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« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2012, 02:01:02 PM »

13C sounds nice and warm. My kitchen is 10c and that has the storage heater. Upstairs gets only what drifts up the stairs. Have you got any of the snow? I only got an inch on Monday on the moor but with no wind to speak of above 10mph it is quite balmy forthe time of year.
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Bodidly
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« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2012, 02:26:43 PM »

It is 2 completely separate systems Sam. Thanks for the interest but I really don't want to go into those systems and their problems, I'm looking for ideas/suggestions for what to put in their place. Although... I've run a straw poll of the 2 colleagues of mine that I know have heat pumps.  One has family of 4 using a GSHP in a 1 year old house - 10,000 kWh a year.  The other 2 professionals with an ASHP running radiators - 8,000 kWh.  So perhaps 10,000 kWh of electricity is just normal for heat pumps.  facepalm
[/quote

Hi Andrew

I am also in Devon and use a GSHP. Our house is 163m2 to 2002 regs and we have a GSHP and it works. I cannot give you precise figures for energy because we burn wood a lot of the time but before the stove was fitted the GSHP was our only source of heat. The total electricity bill for that year was between £600 and £700 that's everything. After a recent experiment I estimate the COP to be around 3.6 but that's not to bad. I have read your GBF thread and I hope you get this all resolved one way or another. If you want to visit to see GSHP, PM me I would be happy to help if I can.

Beau
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 02:29:37 PM by Bodidly » Logged
billi
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« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2012, 02:15:57 PM »

air to air  source heatpumps  with heatrecovery       and  "soilcollector "  can have a COP of over 3   in Winter   as far as i know  and read from independent ( heatpump questioning) report  (German  I can supply the result translated Tongue),   

They  rested  one unit in a passiv house that draws 500 watt

Heat pump on its own                                       achieved a COP of 1.2   
Heatpump with soil-collector                              achieved a COP of 2.8
Heatpump with soil-collector and heat recovery     achieved a COP of 3.3

As far as i am aware they calculate COP   excluding addition electricity drawers like pumps and vents

Here  is a diagramm   of the install ( solar thermal was not calculated in )  (

Text was  translated with  google  from  German (so do not blame me ) ................. can provide the rest of the test  or/and   explain the setup in the diagramm

Billi



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Guinness no Grid comes near

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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