Mail article on poor innocent grannies subsidising evil solar

[mikey9]

So poor innocent granny contributing to mahooosive profits of typically tax avoiding multinational power company is fine.....

Granny contributing to repayment of my hard working family's loan taken out finance an install to help develop the PV industry in this country as a small step towards de-carbonising the economy (and reducing our houshold leccy consumption through our education by 50% into the bargain) - to be repaid through FITS over the next 8 years ....is evil 

Go figure........bloody muppets.

[desperate]

tax avoiding multinational power company is fine..... and........... my hard working family's loan taken out finance an install to help develop the PV industry 

is all a bunch of froth and beside the point, which is Granny in both cases is funding a reduction in CO2 emissions, and as pointed out earlier, with a small amount of her winter fuel payment. Like you I think the FiT isn't exactly fair on all parties concerned, but without it, there is no PV industry.

Figure??

Desp

[Tombo]

The landlord gets out their original investment plus 150% roughly.

I actually think many tenants will end up with large bills because they don't be able to tell or perhaps fully understand when the electricity is free.  I doubt many social housing landlords will be paying for remote displays for the tenants! So many will have no way of knowing.

End up with large bills - why, for what?

So many will have no way of knowing - MK1 eyeball and window?

Mart.

If you had never seen a PV output display do you really think you could guess form a PV array with any degree of accuracy?

I'll bet there are people on this form who will end up having larger electricity bills after telling their partners to use the immersion because it's "free" while the PV is working and the partner doesn't understand the suitability of PV output.  The difference is that they probably have a remote display (or at least a display they can read) and  can afford it the electricity bill when it comes.   

If you still think the eyeball is good enough then why are people paying £100 for remote displays?

[M]

The landlord gets out their original investment plus 150% roughly.

I actually think many tenants will end up with large bills because they don't be able to tell or perhaps fully understand when the electricity is free.  I doubt many social housing landlords will be paying for remote displays for the tenants! So many will have no way of knowing.

End up with large bills - why, for what?

So many will have no way of knowing - MK1 eyeball and window?

Mart.

If you had never seen a PV output display do you really think you could guess form a PV array with any degree of accuracy?

I'll bet there are people on this form who will end up having larger electricity bills after telling their partners to use the immersion because it's "free" while the PV is working and the partner doesn't understand the suitability of PV output.  The difference is that they probably have a remote display (or at least a display they can read) and  can afford it the electricity bill when it comes.   

If you still think the eyeball is good enough then why are people paying £100 for remote displays?

If you had never seen a PV output display do you really think you could guess form a PV array with any degree of accuracy?

Yes, when the big yellow god in sky is angry, switch on the washing machine.

I'll bet there are people on this form who will end up having larger electricity bills after telling their partners to use the immersion because it's "free" while the PV is working and the partner doesn't understand the suitability of PV output. 

Like any new tech, people will learn about it quickly. Anyone using an immersion heater in conjunction with PV is taking a big risk. A quick chat / google will inform most how to 'get along' with PV. If the immersion is being used anyway, PV will help. If it wasn't being used before, then it probably shouldn't with PV. Simples.

The difference is that they probably have a remote display (or at least a display they can read) and  can afford it the electricity bill when it comes.

PV will eliminate about 10 to 15 hours of baseload in the summer and 5 to 7 hours in the winter, 1 to 2 kWh's per day unless the weather is terrible. Even without trying, anyone, can save 300 to 700 kWh's depending on baseload. Remember PV will service the house (baseload) before exporting. A householder would have to switch off all fuses at dawn, to avoid baseload savings.

If you still think the eyeball is good enough then why are people paying £100 for remote displays?

Energy monitors can be purchased on E-bay for between £10 and £20, or borrowed free from some libraries.
Further tips when the sun is on the PV side of the house:- if it's hot outside, put the washing machine on. If elderly neighbours are saying 'I like it warm, but this is too warm', put the washing machine on, if you need sunglasses or shorts, put the washing machine on, thinking of having a BBQ or going to the beach, put the washing machine on.

I think you are seriously underestimating how quickly people learn. If a 5 year old can run rings round me with a smart phone, I'm pretty sure someone renting a room and responsible for their electricity bill can learn about PV. It's hardly rocket science.

I appreciate that I'm being rude and condescending, but I'm a little angry at just how ridiculous the statement that PV will increase bills is. It would actually require effort and a large degree of stupidity to achieve an increase.

Mart.

[brackwell]

Mart,
I dont have a problem with what you are saying but you severely overestimate peoples understanding of electricity and that is one off the problems. I was talking to a customer of PV who told me that one of the salesman who came to see him could not distinguish between kw and kwh. The VAST majority of people could not tell you what various household appliances consume nor what the PV produces and it is for that reason the gov is/was giving monitors/smart meters to people.
I am not to proud to say that i have learnt from the monitor and pv repeater and i am a engineer with a university degree.

It is partly the lack of understanding that PV is struggling. The honest salesman says well you SHOULD get this return + 50% of something + some amount you may be able to save. I can well see many saying this has to be double glazing ball s..   Compare that with net metering which says "you can save all your electricity bill" - the message is clear and unequivocal.

Ken

[M]

Mart,
I dont have a problem with what you are saying but you severely overestimate peoples understanding of electricity and that is one off the problems. I was talking to a customer of PV who told me that one of the salesman who came to see him could not distinguish between kw and kwh. The VAST majority of people could not tell you what various household appliances consume nor what the PV produces and it is for that reason the gov is/was giving monitors/smart meters to people.
I am not to proud to say that i have learnt from the monitor and pv repeater and i am a engineer with a university degree.

It is partly the lack of understanding that PV is struggling. The honest salesman says well you SHOULD get this return + 50% of something + some amount you may be able to save. I can well see many saying this has to be double glazing ball s..   Compare that with net metering which says "you can save all your electricity bill" - the message is clear and unequivocal.

Ken

I agree about some of the over-selling, but I'm a little annoyed at this attempt to under-sell.

To get more than £100pa saving will involve, knowledge, sites like this, and a gradual learning curve. Figures of 50% savings and £200+ are highly unlikely without enormous effort. However, to gain £30 to £50 from simple baseload savings would be difficult to 'avoid'. It would require effort not to save 10 or 15 times the impact of PV FITs on the bill (assume around £3 to £4pa at present).

Also, the nay sayers need to remember that a house with free PV will get that for 25+ years, during which they will also get 3 monthly progress reports on their consumption, via the electricity bill. Anyone still facing a higher bill after 6 months is probably beyond help, or lack opposable thumbs!

I think the statement that PV will push your leccy bill up (for those with PV) is simply 'bloke down the pub said' nonsense.

Mart.