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Author Topic: Horses water tank freezing  (Read 776 times)
Paul Bradford
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« on: February 09, 2012, 08:43:34 PM »

Hi All you inventors out there. Due to the cold weather, the bath of drinking water that we have for the horses is frozen solid. I have seen a 12v immersion heater on the internet, but it seems expensive and I wonder if anyone has some ideas as to how we could stop the water from freezing? Would it be possible to use a small solar panel, like those on solar shed lights through some sort of coil to warm the water?
As an aside, I've been wondering as I push wheelbarrows of manure & straw to our heap, if I could somehow harness the heat from our manure heap. It would be handy if it was closer to the house, but then we would suffer from flies in the summer. It's about 100 metres away.
Looking forward to reading some ideas.
Regards
Paul
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stannn
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 08:48:47 PM »

Solve this one and the farmers will have nowt to do in february.
Stan
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Heinz
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 11:04:57 PM »

Pile the poo round three sides of the bath???
Keep the water moving. Even something dark coloured floating in the water which the wind will move can help. Black plastic jerry can?
Paint the bath black?
All of the above.....

H
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Baz
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 11:22:10 PM »

Surround with polystyrene and most importantly cover all but a square foot of the top with 2 in of polystyrene with a piece of polythene sheet down from that to under the water so as they drink there isn't a space for cold air to get to the water.
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martin
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 11:31:23 PM »

The 12v immersion heater is definitely not going to work - at the time you need the most heat (midwinter and at night) the pv panel will be producing clutter all-  the manure is probably your best bet!
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Philip R
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 11:35:10 PM »

Then Mr GeeGee will not be able to get to the water. If he does, it will be contaminated with paint solvent, polystyrene plasticiser and poo!

Forget about the solar powerred 12v immersion.

Reckon you need a three sided shed type affair so GeeGee can access from one side only. The shelter will reduce weather exposure a little.

Why not have a close to house trough for the winter and this one for the summer.

PhilR.
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HalcyonRichard
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012, 11:48:06 PM »

Hi,
    Could you use/modify something like this non freeze outside tap ? :-

https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/farm-yard-hydrant-outside-tap-non-freeze-p-2838.html

Regards richard
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SteveH
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012, 11:56:49 PM »

 take the horse "in" at night...?
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biff
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 12:29:22 AM »

The answer is simple enough,
                       No solvents,paint poo or poly,just revert to the wild.
       Sink the bath into the ground flush with the surface.Then the horses should be able to break the ice themselves.
   You might have to crack it yourself in the beginning but eventually they would souse it out.
  Some domestic dogs still retain the ability to crack thick ice,they jump up into the air and come down on the ice stiff legged with their four paws bunched together.This is exactly how the wolf does it.
                                                 Biff
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Paul Bradford
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2012, 08:45:24 AM »

Thanks for the updates so far.
Richard, I like the Farmyard tap, that is something that I will definitely look at for the warmer months when I can install it. The horses have stables and the water freezes in there too. I appreciate that I could use some form of straw box to keep the water warmer. Last night we were at minus 15c without the windchill.
I like the idea of a sheltered water supply anyway as that should keep the water cooler in the height of summer.
What about if I ran the 12v immersion heater from a car battery that was somehow topped up from a solar charger during the day?
Paul
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renewablejohn
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2012, 08:52:35 AM »

If you use the 4 ft wide circular drinking troughs and you have flowing water then direct pipe to outer edge and the whole tank full of water will rotate like a wheel  not allowing the surface to freeze also means the overflow will not freeze up. If no flowing water than a small pond pump directed round the outside edge will have the same effect. If away from 240v then a 12v solar panel and battery could power a 12v pump. If you wanted you could insulate the trough but my horses would just rip the insulation to pieces as they like playing games.
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martin
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2012, 08:57:29 AM »

You'd kill the battery stone dead in a couple of hours, and you'd need a big array to refill it every day in mid winter (probably around 1Kw of pv), which would mean you'd need a far better and bigger battery than a "car battery", all to make probably clutter all difference to the freezing water - the sums just don't add up!

A pump is certainly a better solution than an immersion heater, but it will still need a LOT of current to run it (big batteries and pv arrays - probably the thick end of £2,000-worth all told) - hence I reckon pv and batteries are not the way to go (you need the power in midwinter and particularly at night)


Perhaps a low-tech solution like floating a few balls in it would be far better
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 08:59:16 AM by martin » Logged

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martin
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 09:09:51 AM »

and here's acouple of cut and pastes from US horse sites - http://www.curlyfarm.com/photos/winter07/pages/horse_bucket_freeze.htm and  http://horselife-steve.blogspot.com/2009/12/no-more-frozen-water-tanks-your-horses.html

"First off, most horses know how to break ice in a tank. So don't think you have to keep every bit out. All of our horses know to break ice, and even in lower single digits many horses will keep breaking ice through the night so there will still a muzzle-sized hole in the morning.

1. The bigger your tank, the longer it takes to freeze. So watering from a muck bucket versus a 150gallon or bigger tank is a big, big difference in how long it will stay thawed.

2. Cover as much of the surface of your tank as you can. Consider bolting a sheet of plywood to the rim around the top- you just need enough of an opening for them to get their head in, and covering the rest will help keep water from freezing as fast. Works even better if you pile dirt or even snow on top of the board, proving extra insulation.

3. You may want to drain your tank, dig some of the dirt underneath it out, set the tank in the small hole, and pile the displaced dirt around the sides. This will help use ground heat to keep the horse's water thawed. Also when you feed you can tuck your horse's hay right up against the sides of the tank to add more insulation.

4. Your best bet, if you don't have electricity, is a double-tank. Find an old leaky stock tank and place a slightly smaller rubbermaid type stock tank inside. Then insulate the space in between with whatever insulating material you can find. Insulation or Styrofoam being the best, but dirt, straw, or hay chaffe will work too. This paired with a partial cover should keep a tank from freezing over except in really extreme weather.

5. When breaking ice, actually remove the frozen chunks of ice from the stock tank. Removing ice instead of just breaking it, and replacing it with water above freezing will help cut down on ice.

5. In a pinch, harness the power of manure!! When we got hit with our first storm as horse owners we'd take a muck bucket, find the warmest, freshest piles of poop, put them in the bottom of the muck bucket, put a water bucket on top, inside the muck bucket, and then stuff the gap in the sides of the 5gal and muck bucket with hay. It worked really well! That 5gallon bucket wouldn't even form a film of ice while the 150 gallon tank had a few inches by morning"

and

"Things you can do that don't require electricity are covering most of the tank with a board, only allowing a small section of the tank exposed so the horses can stick their muzzles in to get a drink. 
Place a floating object in the tank. The movement of the object along the surface can stimulate the water enough to keep it from freezing.
Insulate the tank.  You can do this by building an outshell around the tank with some plywood and 2x4's.  Fill the gap inbetwen the shell and the tank with foam insulation then build a lid with a small hole for the horses to drink out of.
Another way to insulate is to bury the tank below the frost line. This may or may be feasible depending on where you live and the depth of the frost line.
The idea I really like is to build a solar box around the tank.  You do this in the same manner as the insulating box but with a few little changes.  Firstly the tank should be painted black and a clear panel of plexiglass built into one side of the box.  The clear side should be facing the southern exposure.  Build a lid with a small opening for the horses to drink out of.  In order to retain most of the heat seal the box with a caulking sealant"
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renewablejohn
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2012, 09:25:45 AM »

The pump does not have to be working 24/7  a timer to switch it on 5 minutes in every 30 would be quite adequate

http://www.gardensite.co.uk/Bermuda_250_Feature_Pond_Pump_With_LED_Lights.htm

Typical low voltage low flow water pump
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HalcyonRichard
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 09:32:59 AM »

Hi Paul,
            That's an excellent post by Martin. The best solutions are "passive" if you can. I suppose it's a bit of trial and error to get the best solution.
The freeze free tap has been around for a while. The idea I had was to have the water fed via one of the irrigation timer/valves (battery versions £30 ish)in a frost free location. This would come on for say 5 minutes every couple of hours. The feed pipe to the water tank would come out of the ground and feed over and into the top of the tank. Drill a small hole - probably 1/8" in the feed pipe below the frost line. When the valve is on most of the water will go into the tank. When the valve shuts off the small hole will allow the water in the pipe to the tank to drain preventing the feed pipe freezing. The overflow can be a pipe running from the bottom of the tank to a bulkhead outlet at the water level you require. This should keep it frost free(or insulate if required).

Depending on the run of the feed pipe from the irrigation valve you may need to fit a one way valve to prevent the whole pipe being drained. You would need to monitor in in cold conditions to get the best/minimum water amount to feed in to prevent freezing. Using this with some of Martin's post should give a labour free frost free solution.  Smiley

Regards Richard
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