Waste transfer notes.

[stephen]

I am currently registering as a waste carrier for veg oil.  Has anyone else done this? Is it as easy as it looks?

Stephen

[stephen]

If there is anyone in the Derbyshire / South Yorkshire area that would like some free oil and I mean free!!!! let me know as i should be producing more than i can consume and dont wat to go into selling it as its a whole new ball game.


Stephen

[jamie08]

Hi Stephen.
I applied for a waste carriers licence this year. Its not too difficult, the application form is rather long but you dont have to provide very much information, most of the form I left blank. Just make sure you enclose a cheque for the correct amount.

Im in the North Notts area close to the south yorkshire/notts/derbyshire border. I'd be very interested if you had any surplus oil. My application was dealt with by the Sheffield Environment Agency office. The application processing time should be 3 months however mine took 5 months and a number of phone calls. Nothing wrong with the application, I just think they are not very efficient.
Hope this helps.

Regards
Jamie.

[stephen]

I have applied to the same office.
I have PMd you with further details.

welcome to the forum

Stephen

[Ian]

My Listeroid CHP setup uses waste liquid veg oil and solid chip fat. The biggest problem is getting hold of enough oil. A few local pubs can supply a few litres of oil a week and the local chippies can supply a little more of the solid stuff - but no-where near enough to feed the beast at the rate of 2 - 4 litres per hour.

The really large users of liquid oils appear to have contracts in place with existing oil recyclers. Most pubs, restaurants, and canteens have an agreement where their current oil supplier also takes the waste away. Chip shops have their fat delivered as solid lumps and there is no agreement with their suppliers for safe removal - so they all just tip the waste in the skip when it is semi-solid and then it solidifies in the skip. Take-away's use all the waste oil as "sauce" so they never have any to dispose of.

On this basis I did not see the benefit in registering as a waste oil carrier and processor. My neighbour, who also has a Listeroid, is a farmer and farmers have an easy route into handling waste products. He registered as a waste oil processor on-line. I do not know where he plans to source his oil but he is gearing up with a good number of plastic 200 litre barrels to hold it all.

Based in Macclesfield / Buxton, I am probably only about 15 - 20 miles from you at most and would be VERY interested in any excess waste oil you may have. How do we take it from here ?

Regards,
Ian

[stephen]

At the moment I only use straight veg oil so the remainder of the thicker gloopy oil gets burnt in my biomass boiler. I have just offered it to Jamie to convert into bio diesel if he wants it.
I have been considering collecting the solid lard and rigging up a heater to make it liquid and clean it with a centrifuge.
My next plan was to try to mix it with veg oil so it becomes semi solid so melting it in the car would be easier. (a bit like margarine) Has anyone tried this before???  If not I can keep the solid stuff liquid and run the Lister with it. (When I get it plumbed in. Job No errrr cant count that far!)

I can now get hold of about 40 – 50l per week and wanted to up this to a little more so I hope there would be some surplus from time to time
Your about 37 miles 1 hour away from me so I suggest when I get a glut I post it on here so it would be worth your while traveling.
Tell us about your CHP system how is it rigged up etc.

Kind regards

Stephen.

[KenB]

Stephen, Ian

I currently get reasonable quality oil occasionally from a local pub.  I filter it and run the Lister directly on it. When it gets a bit cooler, I may use an oil pre-heater coil wound around the hot exhaust.

Regarding "chip shop lard",  this is usually hydrogenated vegetable oil(fat) which melts at 35 to 40C. I've had some in the back of my car today and in the sunshine its started to soften up.

The lard can be liquified using a water heated fuel pick-up lance, or a bulk container be kept liquid by immersing it in a suitable water bath. 

There is no shortage of waste heat available from a Lister, especially if it is run for several hours at a time.

After 4.5 hours running today,  and 5.6 litres of WVO consumed, I had fully charged batteries again, run the dishwasher, a hot water cylinder at 70C and a local store of 120 litres of water that was close to boiling  - not to mention an unbearably warm engine shed.

What is the fee for a waste carriers license?

Ian's engine I guess is a 12hp - so that's why it has such a voracious appetite for lard.




Ken

[Ian]

Most liquid veg oil is either soya or rape (canola). Depending upon how it has been treated in the fryer, it may have a freezing point as low as -6 C if you are lucky - but under about 30 degrees C it will be viscous and have different flow characteristics to diesel. Only when you get this oil to above 60 degrees will it have similar characteristics to dino diesel.

The solid chip fat is probably also mostly soya and rape but could easily have other oils (such as palm) added by the blender to meet certain criteria. The reason it is solid is that it has been partially hydrogenated. Once it has been hydrogenated it will have a much higher freezing point (generally above ambient temperature). Again, its characteristics will depend upon how it has been treated in the fryer. It is interesting stuff as it tends to supercool and then crystalise into a lump all of a sudden. Whilst it may have a freezing point of, say 20 degrees C, you may have to heat it to, say, 40 degrees C to melt it.

All food grade oils have additives such as antioxidants and antifoams added by the blender and these should not have any serious side effects in a crude diesel. What CAN give problems are the various complexes formed during frying abuse - such as protein and starch complexes, and the most diufficult of all, water complexes. Free fatty acids can react with water and all sorts of gums and waxes can complex out at varying temperatures. These things clog filters even when it looks to be good and free flowing.

You may THINK that you can mix liquid veggie and solid veggie when they are both hot and get a homogeneous solution. But the partially hydrogenated oils will always drop out when the temperature drops. This is also true of mixing the solid stuff with dino diesel or TVO. The complexes will alos tend to drop out and clog filters.

You CAN mix the liquid stuff with dino or TVO and it stays pretty well in solution - but the complexes, gums and waxes will always drop out when it is cold enough - usually in the fuel filter.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Ian

[stephen]

This is all good info thank you.
Ken the cost of the licence is £144 for the first year then £96 ish each year after.
as long as you are not moving more than 5000 L per year then your all right by the environment agency.

The tax office on the other hand is 2500 L before you have to declare anything (per car).
If you have 2 cars that’s the sums done!

Ken / Frotter how do you heat the lance – pick up in the tank.


Regards
Stephen

[KenB]

Stephen, List,

I would rather pay my gas company £144 per year for 50 days heating (5000kWh gas), than pay good money out for a piece of paper, to a bunch of bureaucrats , who are living like parasites, off the backs of us.

I shall continue to get waste veg oil from my existing sources, and probably invest in a 1000 litre IBC, delivered to my door.

HMR&C does not come into it - I'm not running a vehicle on it.

Need I pay 17% VAT or just 5% as I am using it as domestic heating fuel?


Ken



 

[Ted]

The tax office on the other hand is 2500 L before you have to declare anything (per car).

If you mean HMRC and road duty then the threshold of 2500 litres is per household not per car.

[frotter]

Heated lance? My specialist subject.....
Some 28mm and 8mm copper tube.





The element is from RS. Small enclosure heater. Only a few quid and they come in a whole range of voltage, power and temps. This one is a 240v 30w 90degrees C version.




The finished version has a sealed plastic cap at the top and is filled with small ball bearings for internal heat transfer. Works a treat!
I made a 100watt 12volt version for the lard-smelter in the Frotvan.

Go forth and melt lard my children!

XX

[stephen]

Thanks everyone for the input. I have thought hard about getting 1000 L IBC delivered for approx 30p ltr. Unfortunately I don’t have gas only oil or bioboiler and the house is huge.
I have asked if the limit is per car or per household. The people I have spoken too are a little sketchy on this. If its per household we could run a fleet of taxis lol. I think you may be right 1 per household, it makes sense.

Frotter the two slots in the pipe is one flow one return. How long does it need to be on to have a puddle of lard ready to be sucked up the fuel line. I guess your lines are also heated. Looked at your other threads (loads of them) and cant see the answer. Sorry if its repeated.

Stephen

[Twenty4Seven]

I have asked if the limit is per car or per household. The people I have spoken too are a little sketchy on this. If its per household we could run a fleet of taxis lol. I think you may be right 1 per household, it makes sense.

Yes, is is per household - or, more correctly, the premises. Before the 2500 litre ceiling, when we all had to pay duty, it was the premises that was entered on the HMRC's register. It's also worth pointing out that, even if you produce less than 2500litres p/a for road use, you still have to keep records. You don't have to submit them to HMRC every month like we used to but you must be able to produce records if asked.

Nick