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KenB
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« on: January 31, 2008, 01:48:14 PM » |
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List, I came across this YouTube of a chap in the US who has to have the ultimate solar pV installation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEdQRVQtffwAfter you have watched the video, please ponder the capital cost and also the efficiency of converting solar pV into hydrogen and then back into electricity. Much of the benefit that his house offers is from the boring old insulation. Hydrogen is not the way forward. Ken |
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O MidKnight
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 01:54:43 PM » |
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Insulation is first again!
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Solar heating - makes you feel good when you open the hot tap and when you look at your heating bill
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dan_aka_jack
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 02:12:04 PM » |
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A quick read of the YouTube comments makes it looks like the system cost the home-owner $400,000, and that's after having received lots of sponsorship.
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dhaslam
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 03:02:58 PM » |
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It shows that big problem is winter time energy source. Nearly all the cost has gone into energy storage. Even though the solar panels are very expensive their cost is tiny compared to all the other hardware.
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Paulh_Boats
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 05:09:44 PM » |
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"Let yea without sin cast the first stone"
Don't knock the guy, he is a pioneer. There is a detailed article about his project in the IET journal. John Strizki is CEO (chairman) of Renewable Energy International and a founder of the Hopewell Project, a non-profit coporation dedicated to renewable energy.
The project cost $500,000 and his goal was to show that renewable energy can power an average American home. He runs his car on the hydrogen he generates also.
-Paul
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AndySV1K
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 05:40:29 PM » |
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I think thats a fascinating set-up.
Lets face it, he cant be doing it to save money, so im not too sure why people are so keen to knock him.
As an experiment to prove whats possible, its a great project. Obviously not practical for everyone though!
Andy.
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KenB
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 05:47:02 PM » |
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Paul, List
He could have done it a lot cheaper using conventional lead acid battery technology.
He should have stopped 15 years ago when he completed the insulation on his low energy home. That was probably the point of minimum environmental impact.
Half a million dollars would have equipped a dozen houses with a reasonable RE system.
OK - how many of his 10kW from solar pV array actually are used effectively in the house. The whole electrolyser/fuel cell combination has a really poor turnaround efficiency. Why is he dumping the oxygen? He would get a better efficiency if he used H2 plus O2 in the fuel cell.
This is the usual north american attitude, get the biggest, most expensive, least efficient system you can and then brag about it.
Have you considered the embodied energy in that little lot?
Manufacturing and Transportation costs of all those propane tanks?
This is a classic example of just converting fossil fuel energy into high technology goods and shifting the energy bill and pollution to the countries that manufactured the goods.
OK so his heating/air con bills are down from $3000 per year to $600 - so he's still using 6000 kWh pa to run the heat pump.
I will look out the IET article, but I doubt that I will be persuaded that this is a viable way to proceed.
I'm off to smash a few looms......
Ken
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Phil
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 06:24:25 PM » |
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Love his workshop though  |
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Panda_Badger
Full Member
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Posts: 104
Spring Panda
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 07:31:49 PM » |
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Watched the vid. Corr, you don't see the likes of this everyday.  What's the chappy doing storin' hydrogen when he could just get a load more SAFER batts and buy an electric vehicle. All that too-ing and fro-ing, converting to different types of energy must be wasting loads. Didn't say much about how the hydrogen was stored. His yard looks like a chemical plant and his garage looks like an electrical sub-station. Top marks for effort. A little watering down me thinks.  The Panda. |
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« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 02:45:11 PM by Panda_Badger »
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Row, row, row yer boat gently down the stream......
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dan_aka_jack
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2008, 08:31:59 PM » |
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He certainly is a pioneer. But I'd worry that a fair few people will see his setup on YouTube and think "gosh, renewable energy for the home clearly isn't viable for mere mortals like me - I'll not bother to research it any further".
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frotter
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2008, 11:49:54 PM » |
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Pfff... I dont think any of that stuff came from the tip. Americans are wubbish! Impressive apple shaped tummy though. Mmmm... apples..  |
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HE WHO CONTROLS THE LARD - CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE!! Its me, incidentally..
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Ivan
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 01:07:22 AM » |
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Hmm. Good on him for trying out new ideas, but money could have been much better spent. I guess that's the price of research. I think Mr. Frots is at the other end of the scale - and much more interesting to us everyday folk, who have the money to copy what he's doing (well, ok, once we've seen if it works out!).
I'm not sure about storing hydrogen in propane tanks. I looked into H2 storage a while ago. Most metals are quite porous to H2, so I think he could be leaking a lot of it away. Unless the porosity is less of a problem at lower pressures?
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Paulh_Boats
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 01:59:32 AM » |
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Yes the hydrogen bit is a bit wacky.....but 58 solar panels. WOW! about 10kW.
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Bob
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 07:10:23 AM » |
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A nice divide between those who thinks he's "good" and those who thinks he's "bad". I cannot express an opinion because my download speed does not allow me to see the video but I do think it demonstrates one of the principal divergences in eco-opinion (ugh! what a horrible expression). The split between the techno-fix and the back-to-basics.
Sounds like the man deserves credit for trying though.
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It's not what you make, it's what you use that counts!
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Paulh_Boats
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 08:01:40 AM » |
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Bob,
Yes it good to see a healthy debate! He is just one man determined not to use the grid in winter.....but if the final outcome is that using the grid is the best way forward then the worst he has done is use his own money in a real-life experiment.
The PV part is a sucess, only 30% of his power goes to Hydrogen.
-Paul
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