Solar Heated Water for Washing Machines with a Cold Feed only.

[Greenbeast]

I don't know how well my soap based washing powder would dissolve in cold water

[Amy]

so get a liquid thats designed for cold washes. They have detergent surfactants that dont need heat as a catalyst

Many brands but ecover seems a firm fave

[Greenbeast]

i make it myself and hence its not only practically free but nice and environmentally friendly

[Ivan]

Greenbeast, what sort of soap do you make? Georgia likes making soap (under supervision), and she's always looking for something else to make. Is it castille soap-based?

[Greenbeast]

The soap i use for washing powder is a solid castile soap (i.e. pure olive oil soap), which is then grated.
I add soda crystals and borax and then use a couple of tablespoons per load

Only started it a couple of months ago after making all our own body soap for the last 3 years

[rob26440]

then use a couple of tablespoons per load

Don't they rattle a lot in the drum? 

[Greenbeast]

lol

[rob26440]

As i mentioned earlier, in the nov dec jan quarter, i halved my leccy bill just through changing 4 light bulbs and going over to cold fill.

Ames,

You've got me thinking about this 50% reduction - seems too good to be true.  How did you manage it?

Here’s my experience. I’ve been checking back in my records…

In the last 2 years I have replaced 15 lamps with CFLs and now have just 6 incandescents to replace (4 are on dimmers and are not high usage).  There are three more lamps outside and they are 11 watt CFL sensor night lamps and they have been in use for the last 7 years.  So this doesn't affect recent calcs.

Moving to CFLs has reduced my electricity consumption for lighting in those 2 years from 1000 KWH to 700 KWH per year.  Which I thought was not bad.  The washing machine accounts for around 150 KWH in the year – without water being heated by the machine.  So total for these 2 components = 850 KWH.

Now... For the sake of the argument, assume the washing machine used a further 300 KWH/yr if it heated its water from cold – based on 7 loads per week, 20mins total heating/load, 2.4KWH element.  Thus for the pre-CFL lighting and the washing machine (inc. heating its water) that's 1000 + 150 + 300 = 1,450 KWH.  Overall saving = 600 KWH/yr.

My total annual electricity usage is currently around 6,400 KWH down from 6,700 before the CFLs (would have been 7,000 with the washer using its heater).

By my reckoning, if I didn't use any electricity for lighting or for washing (including the 300 KWH to heat the washing machine water) I can't get anywhere near a 50% reduction just from the CFLs and a cold wash cycle.

Bit long-winded all that but it's pretty accurate.  I have used power meters to check usage over the years.

Have I missed something - maybe we are heavy users of electricity?  We average 6,400/365 = 17.5KWH per day – borne out by the meter readings.

What’s your 50% secret?

(Apologies for slipping a bit OT – but I have mentioned washing machines and water!)

Rob.

Update... Forgot to mention that cooking by electricity uses about 1,000 KWH/yr and the heavily insulated F/F in the garage accounts for another 440 KWH/yr (was 560 KWH before the additional insulation was added).

[Greenbeast]

it does seem too good to be true.
I can't imagine dropping my usage by 50% as easily (its currently 2500kWh/year)

But then i have to cook with electricity and without that i guess it would be the washing machine and fridge freezer that would cause the biggest problems

[Amy]

OK, i tell it like it is.

Previously i had 3x50w GU10s in the kitchen which i exchanged for 2x 9w cfls
I had 1x50w GU10 in the bedroom which ive changed for 1x 7w cfl
1x 40 w in the living room which ive changed for 1x9 w cfl.

I dont leave lights on when not in use but the kitchen ones were on for maybe 2 hour per day in deepest winter and the living room all the waking hours when dark.
kitchen=3x50 x 2 hours =300 watts per day
living room=40wx6 hrs/day= 240
bedroom= 1x50w@ 1hr/day.........................@ 600w a day total for lighting

The cooker is gas and the heating is all gas too but i do use the microwave for a lot of cooking.
600x600 fridge freezer, i dont boil the kettle much more than twice a day, shower is a mixer off the combi.

That only leaves the TV and laptop and washing machine.

I average maybe 2.5 washes per week unless ive been particularly dirty at work in which case its one wash per day.
19 out of 20 are cold washes, occasionally put the towels on a hot one and work jeans too sometimes if ive been wiping the flux off my hands onto my jeans

Almost always use the no. 11 programme which only takes 40 ish minutes on half load.
I think its better to wash less bulk so it can agitate more rather than stuff it full and get poor results.

So you can see the lights dont use much and the microwave, kettle, tv, laptop, etc useage remain constant
 and therefore i have to assume its the washing machine thats to blame for the higher consumption. 

[spluger]

having a good read of this thread

the simplest way would be a mixer valve at the washing machine set to 30 deg C and leave it at that

even dead leg hot water will be warmer than 4deg or less mains water in the winter and if the machine needs to heat the water for a hot wash it will be a smaller change in temp to achieve

and as stated if possible to reduce pipe size this will help.

[rob26440]

List,

Number of issues with fiddling with the plumbing to washing machines, which I will open up for comment…

My experience of TMVs shows they cause a reduction in flow unless oversized or unless there is a good head of water to each side of the valve.  Expensive too.

TMVs will work with a pressure differential between the hot & cold supplies but not sure if they all have the same tolerances.  E.g. will the TMV work OK if the cold is on mains pressure and the hot is supplied from a low head – such as a vented system in a bungalow?  Need to check the spec.

Using narrower pipes is OK if there is a good pressure and/or head of water.  But washing machines tend to be connected by the flexible pipes to those silly little ball type isolators which also reduce the flow. (Yes, the flexible pipes to the machines are narrow bore but all the restrictions add up – the fewer the better.)

So, by doing some or all of these things you could finish up with a situation where the flow is so reduced the machine will time out on the fill and stop with a fault.  Not necessarily on the wash cycle but could do so on the final rinse which usually takes on a lot more water.

Some years ago I had the above problem on the final rinse because of the time it took to fill and this was on 15mm pipe.  Also, because of the low flow it did not take the fabric softener (waste of money that stuff is anyway – but I have to obey orders).  The problem was caused by the aforementioned silly ball isolator valve on the cold pipe restricting the flow from the header tank (at 0.5 bar).  Replaced it with a full bore isolator – fixed. (My machine has its cold fill from the C/W header tank to take advantage of the softened water.)

Rob.

[Greenbeast]

Good points well made

i was already thinking of running both hot and cold from the roof rather than cold from mains (for pressure differential)
and using 22mm as far as i can (for maximum throughput)


p.s. as mentioned, use vinegar for softener, if you want a scent buy a small bottle of essential oil for a few pounds and put 3-5 drops in the vinegar

[Amy]

Gentlemen

i feel your making a big deal of all this.
adding vinegar and then scented oils to the water isnt going to do much for delicate fabrics or light colours.

just wash with a cold fill and appropriate detergent

[Greenbeast]

Well unfortunately i have a woman to satisfy, so not only does she want some form of softener, she wants it to smell.
Vinegar and essential oils does that job cheaply.

In that same vein, if people do want to still use warm/hot washes then this thread is a good way to go and still save money on leccy