Best source of WVO?

[KenB]

Frotter, List,

With your approach to using the solid vegetable oil (lard), you have the advantage that very few of the biodiesel people are prepared to use this as a feedstock - so you should continue to have a reasonable supply for the foreseeable future.


Ken

[Chug]

This is becoming a regular post on the biofuel forums I frequent, and more and more people are selling wvo on fleabay these days, it seems that 35p per litre is a common price for filtered wvo on there.

peace n grease
Chug

[KenB]

Chug, Ivan, List,

I happened into Sainsburys today, just to have a quick look at their rapeseed oil price.

A stonking 98p per litre!

This was just 56p per litre a few months ago, then 66p then right up to nearly £1.00 per litre.

This has little to do with the actual production cost of the oil. Sainsburys are just charging what they can get a way with - based on the cost of diesel.


Ken

[Chug]

When I bought my first 1 litre bottle from tesco for a test batch of biodiesel back in 2004 it was 35p!

When HMRC dropped the biofuel duty for personal use I predicted that veg oil would increase in price until it was the same, or more expensive than diesel.

peace n grease
Chug

[northern installer]

Ivan,and others who are interested;what about a small(economically priced)press for the extraction of oil from our own rapeseed? anyone know the pressures involved,and any difficulties envisaged (like self combustion under pressure?)

[renewablejohn]

I would certainly be interested in home pressed rapeseed how about a rape press machinery ring

[Ivan]

Navitron has one in stock!! Only one - so first to purchase will get it! We've no experience of it, and no idea of yields etc.

[Ian]

Ken, I am not sure that your thoughts on solid lard and availability is true in my neck of the woods.

My setup uses both solid and liquid veggie (whichever is available at the time) and so I try to collect both liquid and solid. For the past 6 months or more, I have found that more and more of the chip shops using solid are under contract with their oil suppliers to return the used oil to them.

This is a trend which is still increasing and no longer applies just to the high volume chip shops. It is ALL getting harder to come by.

Regards,
Ian

[Ian]

Processing rape seed oil (or other veggie oils)...

Natural, just pressed, veggie oils contain water, gums, and waxes  (and usually some particulates too) and need to be processed before use as a fuel. It may not need such heavy processing for use as biodiesel however (have never tried to make biodiesel).

Usually, I think, the raw oils are boiled and distilled (under vacuum and probably in an inert atmosphere to reduce oxidation and retain colour) to remove the water and gums and waxes, and then cold filtered to remove the heavy (long molecular length) oils that could cause clouding or gelling. These are not easy to do on a small scale and are quite energy intensive.

There have been a few cases of veggie oils spontaneously combusting but they are not so common - usually they occur where oils cannot be naturally cooled [such as in the centre of a pallet] or where there is a high surface area [such as a mist spray onto fibrous insulation].

Commercial veggie oil usually has an antioxidant (BHA or similar) and a silicone antifoam added. It may be prudent to add some antioxidant if the oil will be stored for any length of time. A tell-tale for oxidised oil (therefore a tendency to gum and skin) is the smell of varnish above the oil; this is a chain reaction that can be slowed but not stopped.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Ian

[frotter]

I am actually astonished that it has taken this long for folk to realise the amount of energy (hence £value) there is in any waste fat/oil. For years it has been easy to obtain clear golden fluid (with some gunge...)  completely free from bemused chippies and pubs. Even when diesel prices were 'sensible' i used to feel extremely smug trundling hundreds of miles for free in my huge, battered old Renault Master!  'Course there was the taxation issue to consider.....  But even getting nicked and fined £600 on the spot (yeah, it hurt...) i still reckon i am way ahead overall.
This hyper-inflation to £2 per tub ( ) had to happen sooner or later i suspose. 'tis a dismal happenstance nonetheless.
Flippy Chippy man seems to have deserted me completely - and is probably, even as i type, rolling around naked with Mrs Flippy Chippy on all his £2 coins, laughing maniacally. Hope he gets one stuck right up the bracket. That'll learn 'im.
B*stard.
'Oi! Get orf my fat!'

X

[Ivan]

Did you get fined £600 for running on lard? I'm surprised at that. Isn't there some technicality that solid fuels aren't currently road-taxed which you could allow you to get away with it?

I had my transit dipped with 30% veg oil, and it didn't provoke any comments. They seemed more interested in weighing it to see if the chair plus bag of clothes in the back tipped the van over its maximum weight 

[NickW]

HMRC are far more interested in red diesel scams than a bit of chip oil in the mix. The IRA run most of the red diesel scams. They can remove the dye but not the sulphur content - thats what the boys in blue are looking for. Also explains why red diesel still stinks - its not desulphurised

[Chug]

veg oil yields taken from the JTF website so no guarantee of accuracy
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#ascend

I will try to get some real figures from  of the plant oil association members who I know has been pressing his own seed.

peace n grease
Chug

Navitron has one in stock!! Only one - so first to purchase will get it! We've no experience of it, and no idea of yields etc.

[frotter]

Did you get fined £600 for running on lard? I'm surprised at that. Isn't there some technicality that solid fuels aren't currently road-taxed which you could allow you to get away with it?

I had my transit dipped with 30% veg oil, and it didn't provoke any comments. They seemed more interested in weighing it to see if the chair plus bag of clothes in the back tipped the van over its maximum weight 

No - at that time (those happy naive days of blissful ignorance...  ) i was diluting runny free vegoil with a small amount of heating kerosene. It is clear but as everyone now knows it contains a fiendish 'euromarker' that turns red when tested for. My tank was routinely dipped and the  noticed its golden colour so called in the Customs heavy mob. I had to wait for them to drive from Avonmouth to where i was - took about 2 hours. I was in that poxy layby for about 6 hours freezing my brass parts off and left £600 lighter. Good day out all in all.......   

 

[KenB]

List,

Those of you who watched Dr. Who this evening, now know where Frot gets his lard from 

Flippy Chippy and his missus are really alien nannies!


Ken