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guydewdney
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« on: May 08, 2008, 06:47:21 PM » |
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tIm going for a new kit - Im lazy - so Im after (with a bio-partner?) a new processor / washer / pump etc etc all in one - as close to lob oil in, press go button, wander off, come back, fill car....
A local is selling home made kits for 1100 quid. I know nothing of it - what should I ask?
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mespilus
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2008, 01:11:20 AM » |
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Unfortunately Carlsberg are yet to market biodiesel processing units.
Have you read the Graham Laming site?
If you can plumb and do a bit of electrics you can make your own attended kit for much less.
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Now in the HS2 blight zone
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County 4x4
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2008, 08:13:46 AM » |
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The price of most of the "off the shelf" processors is something that's always astounded me to be honest. Some of the stuff offered on ebay and the like is laughable, and yet enough people seem to get drawn into buying one to keep the manufacturers in business. Oh yeah - and then they arrive on the vegoildiesel forum asking what has gone wrong! I think it must be standing room only on the bio bandwagon now with the number of chancers who have jumped on board. Selling a second hand oil drum with a machine mart pump and a couple of valves from BES connected to a couple of metres of PVC hose for over £500 is not far short of criminal in my opinion.
Similarly, most of the claims for a "complete biodiesel system" are somewhat wide of the mark. There are "dressed up" systems like the Fuelpod etc at over 2 grand - basically mostly cosmetic bodywork covering a couple of plastic tanks, with no mention of any of the important steps like washing the stuff when you've made it, disposing of the by products etc. Plastic tanks with a few valves like the Etruk gear - about 1700 plus VAT for the last one I looked at, and bargain basement stuff like the Greenfuels one which is an oil drum and a 30 quid pump - 300 quid if you please Sir! (It is painted in a rather pleasant shade of green though!)These people must be laughing their socks off all the way to the bank.
If you want to spend £1100 quid I'd be wanting to know what the tanks are made of for starters - and I'd avoid plastic. It's not going to be ATEX rated or anything at that money, so take any claims of safety certificates etc with a large pinch of salt.
My personal opinion would be to have a good look at Graham Laming's website as has already been mentioned. Graham is a smashing bloke and is always happy to answer any questions you may have. He provides all his plans and experience for absolutely nothing, and is very well thought of. I also think there's a lot to be said for building your own processor - you just have a much better idea of how everything works if you've made it yourself.
I reckon at the end of the day, unless you're going to invest a few hundred grand in a state of the art commercial system, then there's still going to be a requirement for some "hands on" work making the stuff. Many of these manufacturers are trying to sell their stuff on a "just pour the oil in and off you go" basis, and with the best will in the world - that's not really how it is! And that's why so many end up on the other forum I mentioned asking for help!!
Get the blowtorch out, an order in to BES, and you can treat yourself to something nice with all that money you'll have saved!
Oh - and avoid the Journey to Forever site whatever you do. Their "foolproof" recipes have been the cause of a huge number of disappointments and failures - and they are generally referred to as Journey to Disaster by those that know......!
Cheers,
Andy
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 08:17:49 AM by County 4x4 »
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guydewdney
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2008, 11:35:33 AM » |
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I have a decent blowtorch, an old cylinder, an old central heating pump (for the venturi) - and access to fleabay for plumbing bits  hmmmmm |
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County 4x4
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2008, 12:14:34 PM » |
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There you go mate - you're half way there already!
I've found that BES are probably about the cheapest online suppliers, and they have a massive range of stuff in stock. My last order arrived in about two days flat. Free carriage too if you order over £40 worth, and with copper prices as they are that's not too hard!
The GL Eco processor seems to be the tackle of choice at the moment, though of course now that we've all got our heads round that one, Graham has invented a new system using gas cylinders and a venturi running in a seperate tank to put the system under a vacuum - oh, and it reverses the flow at one stage just to add to the complications! The Eco processor also has the advantage that it uses very little water for washing the biodiesel once it's made. All good stuff!
Keep us posted mate,
Andy
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Ivan
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2008, 01:18:42 PM » |
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Are you interested in building a Navitron solar-heated biodiesel reactor? We've ordered a specific type of solar panel specifically for this purpose. Should be here within a few weeks...
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guydewdney
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2008, 04:47:56 PM » |
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Yes - I saw the three basic designs, and thought the middle one would be within my grasp, and produce enough for our needs. Timings / valves / heaters:- Is there anything wrong with using domestic hot water zone valves and a basic PIC or cam controller to automate the process? Or even just a wafer switch with settings as per http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/ecosystem/state_diagram_new.htm ? Im just lazy  and like automating things Ivan - interesting... whats the difference? |
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Ivan
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2008, 10:08:21 PM » |
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Well, it may sound obvious, but it's heated by vacuum tubes rather than electrically. Processing 100litres of biodiesel can easily use over 20kWh of electricity if you are using a water wash. By using solar energy, you can eliminate this to a greater extent.
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Twenty4Seven
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2008, 12:08:15 AM » |
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My biodiesel processor is built to Graham Laming's design..... I wouldn't try to automate it beyond using a PID which my next system will (200 litre stainless steel processor - the tank itself was £70 from the bay). http://www.granthamcanal.com/lister/ - the current processor is at the bottom of the page... mind the Lister on your way in  Nick |
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« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 12:13:20 AM by Twenty4Seven »
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2kW PV
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guydewdney
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2008, 08:09:38 AM » |
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Nick of the molegrip suggestion? Ivan - yes, I understand that you use solar heat to heat the oil - why do the panels vary from std panels? My oilpartner (new word?) and I are thinking to get a twin immersion type tank, and have one electrical and one short retrofit solar coil. The heat from the SP is directed into the oil via a thermostatically controlled diverter valve, controlled by the thermostat in the electrical heater. ie, if heat is required, AND the oil is colder than set temp, then diverter valve opens allowing water to flow round coil. Manual bypass also in place. If temp is over set point, diverter valve directs water to heat dump. If theres no sun, and no bio in the tank, then use electrical heater conventionally. However, I cant find a tank with TWO old style top mounted immersion heaters... Ivan? 150 litreish 'direct' cylinder please? |
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AndyB
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2008, 09:22:49 AM » |
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Nick, how easy is it to get the chemicals needed to run the setup. could this be a sticking point.
Andy
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NON MEUS MENDUM
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Ivan
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2008, 12:26:24 PM » |
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Guy, The system you suggested sounds fine. However, I figured the SFH panel - http://www.navitron.org.uk/page.php?55would make a good basis: 1)It uses heatpipes rather than direct fluid in tubes - which means glycerine separation etc will work ok. 2)We've ordered low-wattage heaters (stops the oil charring on the heater elements - a problem with standard immersion heaters). Really, you should not use immersion heaters once the methanol is in the mix - danger of ignition! This is the reason that you should have an external heater (heater band) rather than an immersion to take over heating, after methanol has been added - solar heating can provide this. 3)It's made of stainless steel. The reason copper reactors are not recommended is that copper reacts with biodiesel. People use copper water cylinders because they are easier to obtain. |
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