Diesel, Petrol and Kerosene storage?

[Rupert]

How about turning your container upside down so any gasses are in an escapable place, would that work?

[camillitech]

in a hurry so skipped a few posts here.... but....

diesel bug lives in the bottom of your tank floating ontop of any water in the bottom
(so it's right in the water/diesel mix)

the brown stuff you see, which blocks your filters etc.. is the left over bits of dead diesel bug...

so if there's no water in the bottom of you're tank you've got nothing to worry about....



whatever you store, as long as you make sure the container is full right to the brim and also air tight you shouldn't have a problem !

(remember, fule tanks have breathers on them which will let air circulate!)

Aye Knighty, we'd already established that three years ago  I just resurrected this post because it keeps cropping up on me blog and is now a load of bawloxx  Since the beginning of January what you would have normally bought as 'red diesel' is now no longer the same product, it is low sulpher 'city diesel' with a percentage of bio and a red dye. The upshot of which is that you can no longer store it for more than about six months. You can still buy the old product but I'm not sure how easy it will be to get hold of because you can now only use it in generators and ships so not many depots will stock it.

The new stuff is likely to be of no use (to anything but a Lister  ) long before the dreaded diesel bug can breed 

As for the unleaded petrol Rupert, not only does it go off quickly but it also wrecks carburetor diaphragms on outboards and chainsaws 

Cheers, Paul

[knighty]

ohhhh, thanks for the info camillitech !

I use about 40litres of red a week in the steam cleaner at work.... I was thinking of buying 1000litres from one of the bulk places instead of going to a garage with cans every few weeks....

but now I think I'll stick with the cans if it's going to go off/bad after a while!

[Rupert]

[/quote]

Aye Knighty, we'd already established that three years ago  I just resurrected this post because it keeps cropping up on me blog and is now a load of bawloxx  Since the beginning of January what you would have normally bought as 'red diesel' is now no longer the same product, it is low sulpher 'city diesel' with a percentage of bio and a red dye. The upshot of which is that you can no longer store it for more than about six months. You can still buy the old product but I'm not sure how easy it will be to get hold of because you can now only use it in generators and ships so not many depots will stock it.

The new stuff is likely to be of no use (to anything but a Lister  ) long before the dreaded diesel bug can breed 


Cheers, Paul
[/quote]

Paul is there anything you can do to rejuvenate the "new" type of diesel?  By heating it perhaps?

For someone who doesnt know...........What is so special about a Lister?  Will the Lister run on anything?  Is this just old Listers or even the Lister-Petters which are for sale today.?

Just been looking at old Listers running on Youtube ...amazing what you remember and miss as you get older.

[camillitech]

Hi Rupert,

I'm sure you could go a long way to extending its shelf life just by stirring it occasionally but this is not much use for emergency and standby equipment that can lie for months or even years until required. Also stirring or heating the storage tank will have little effect on the fuel already lying in the filters, pump, lines and injectors. There may well be additives and inhibitors that can extend its shelf life but I've not looked into them because I've found a supplier of gas oil.

I'm sure most of the older diesel engines will run off veg, waste motor oil, kerosene and even heated lard with little or no modification as their fuel injection systems are much more forgiving 

Anything badged as a 'Lister Petter' isn't really a Lister  and anything that runs at 3000RPM should be avoided like the plague. What you need in a generator is 1500rpm (or 1800 if your on 60Hz) LOADS of mass to absorb vibration and dissipate heat and a flywheel that weighs as much as a complete cheap generator. The flywheel is what will smooth out the sudden changes of coming on and off load that even modern governors struggle to do at lower speeds, hence the need for 3000rpm screamers. It's far cheaper to build and ship a lightweight piece of cr4p than something with a flywheel the size of a mill stone 

Cheers, Paul   

[biff]

hi paul,
        i guess you must be fond of these old green machines, we have just voted out every green we had and i know they will be looking for a nice soft spot to land,maybe there is an opening there on raasay for a pair of greens,,gormley-ryan, you could give them a job hauling in the pots maybe if you are short of bait you could ,,,,,,,,knife and,,,,,, ram ,,,,   pot.,,,,,,,,,,,,
                        biff

[Rupert]

How do we know how old the engine is unless you mean just go for a Lister and not Lister petter?

What size Lister engine is suitable for house rating generator? I ask this because you have 3   Must have hijacked an oil tanker or starting your own national grid for Rassay

[camillitech]

Hi Rupert,

you can usually run a household off a single cylinder SR1, ST1 or TS1 these are between 3 and 4Kw, so with a bit of care, ie not using the tumble drier at the same time as the washing machine they will do. However because they are long stroke, single cylinder and slow running the speeding up and slowing down every time the engine reaches top and bottom dead center can cause light flicker and confuse modern washing machines, though if you're running through a battery bank and inverter this is not a problem. Which brings me to my second point, if you are using an inverter/charger with a high charging current and a 'power assist' function they would probably be too small.

A far better option are the SR2, ST2 or TS2, of between 6 and 10Kw, being twins the power delivery is much smoother and they have ample power for most applications. A diesel generator of any make is happiest above 50% load and below 75%, any less will cause bore glazing, any more heavy fuel consumption.

dating a Lister is somewhat barmy, the plate will look something like this 12345, ST, 2, A, 26 then a whole lot more gobbldygook. The 12345 will be the serial number for that year, the ST the type, the 2 the number of cylinders, the A = clockwise rotation (Z = anticlock) and the last one is the one that will give you the date, simply add the numbers onto 51 to give you year of manufacture , so 26=1977

Good luck, Paul

[Rupert]

Paul ......"Gasoil" ....has this got to be stored in the sealed airtight containers for long term storage?


Would you say wait to an appropiate old Lister turns up, or would you say a slowish running 2- cylinder Lister-petter with a flywheel is ok or avoid?

[camillitech]

Good morning Rupert 

I think you can safely store gas oil indefinitely providing it's kept free of moisture, not necessarily air tight but condensation free. I would also avoid using clear IBCs for storage as I think keeping light away from it is important but that's just something I made up and may not actually be that important 

You can pretty much be sure that and 1500rpm twin, even one badged as a 'Lister Petter' is indeed capable of doing the job. Personally I'd look out for a 'Start O Matic' as that will guarantee a quality alternator and will make connecting to an inverter much simpler. I would also avoid the HR series unless you get one with no hours on the clock for next to nothing.

The HR is a good solid engine but far bigger and noisier than you need, Harry, my main 'back up' is a HR2 and he's the dogs danglies but at 12Kw a little OTT, however as he only runs a handful of times a year now I can live with that.

beware of things like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lister-startomatic-generator-/110654339488?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Generators_ET&hash=item19c38339a0 a fantastic and genuine Lister but not a 'start o matic', it is very difficult to convert one of these to electric start as, despite having a blanking plate for a starter motor there are no teeth on the flywheel for it



Good luck, Paul

[billi]

Here a nice generator Rupert in your area not the cheapest , but could run your heating as well  

One could have a look into "How to make fuel from used veggie oil from my local chip-shop "

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tools/1911400

http://www.cim65.fr/images/fiches_techniques_ge_wilson/K8-1S_Fiche2.pdf

Billi


But sure every 1500 Euro spent on other ideas  will be 1 KW of PV less  left over in the budget  

[Rupert]

Thanks Paul you have certainly give me something to think about and look for.

billi....yes i have seen that genny infact i have spent the weekend scouring the internet in Ireland looking for them, but now after reading all here i do have a heavy leaning towards an old lister or maybe a heavy type Lister-petter. 

I am same age as Paul and when we left school in the early 1970's there was still loads of those old British types of machines around and in use so we remember them.  From a time when a machine or tool was designed and manufactured to do a job and the profit came because of that. Instead of today when the profit comes from the fact they dont last for very long so more are needed.

[billi]

Rupert , you are right i should have left School as well in the early  1970's   and i still am amassed  how life teaches me ,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubota