Trike battery to car battery

[Ady]

Hi everybody my name is Ady and I own Lancashire Trikers and I have what is probably a daft question, but, can I replace my Virago Trike battery for a car battery without blowing other parts of the trike to bits?? basically I am looking to fit something that has more in reserve as I find that getting stuck in slow moving traffic with lights on drains the battery very quickly resulting in power loss to the trike and eventual stalling.

What I have fitted now is a Varta 12v 20AH, there is also another number which means nothing to me 200A (EN).

With it being a trike I do have room at the back to install a larger car battery if this will solve my problem.
Could you let me know please what I would need to look for.

Help in this matter could help a few others in my club, so we would be eternally grateful.
www.lancashiretrikers.co.uk

[martin]

It's certainly feasible, and it should work fine, but what you really need to do is address the charging problem.......by the look of it, they're based on a modern bike which should have adequate power generation inbuilt, or are you using gobbets more power than the original setups were designed for?
The problem will come with battery longevity - if you have to keep recharging it, it'll show that there is overall far more going out than is coming in, and to keep flattening an auto battery is going to mean a really short life. 

[Ady]

It's certainly feasible, and it should work fine, but what you really need to do is address the charging problem.......by the look of it, they're based on a modern bike which should have adequate power generation inbuilt, or are you using gobbets more power than the original setups were designed for?
The problem will come with battery longevity - if you have to keep recharging it, it'll show that there is overall far more going out than is coming in, and to keep flattening an auto battery is going to mean a really short life. 

Hi Martin, thanks for your reply. As far as using more power, the only extras that are fitted to the trike compared to the original bike are an amplifier for the mp3 player (which I have been told does take a hefty chunk of power), the mp3 player itself (powered through a cigarette lighter socket), marker lights on the mudguards and a few led's which take very little current. an issue I had on Monday morning was that the battery was almost completely dead, just enough power to start the trike once, then when I switched off and tried again.....................nothing. Now this is after a 60 mile run home the previous night, along a motorway at 70 mph with only the headlight on and backlights and markers on, no mp3 or amplifier. There is a charge going into the battery because the lights brighten when I turn throttle. Can you think of anything that I may have missed or overlooked??
Cheers
Ady

[dhaslam]

There are two more likely causes.   Faulty regulator or alternator not allowing the battery to charge fully or a faulty battery.    Less likely is a loss of power when stopped.   I have a Ford car, my first, and they give constant flat battery problems.   The the last time the AA man said that he has come across a lot of batteries with two cells shorting but most are boot lights sticking on etc.  The best thing is to have the electrics checked and to make sure that the maximum load still allows the battery to charge.     

[Ivan]

Yes, definitely sounds like an electrical problem on the bike - check the battery/alternator/regulator. Get an rev counter (as in diagnostic tool) and with the bike idling check that the revs drop slightly when you turn all the lights on. If so, it's charging. Check voltage on battery. Assuming it's sealed lead acid, it probably charges to 14.4v. Leave it to stand, and the voltage will drop slightly. However, if it's dropping much below 13.8v after a day, then your battery is probably at fault. If it drops to 12.5 or lower, it's completely knackered - does it start ok?

I have a knackered battery on my R1 - it won't start the bike, but if you jump start it, the battery will stall the bike. You can hear the engine struggling as it chucks charge into a presumably internally-shorted battery.

[Ady]

Yes, definitely sounds like an electrical problem on the bike - check the battery/alternator/regulator. Get an rev counter (as in diagnostic tool) and with the bike idling check that the revs drop slightly when you turn all the lights on. If so, it's charging. Check voltage on battery. Assuming it's sealed lead acid, it probably charges to 14.4v. Leave it to stand, and the voltage will drop slightly. However, if it's dropping much below 13.8v after a day, then your battery is probably at fault. If it drops to 12.5 or lower, it's completely knackered - does it start ok?

I have a knackered battery on my R1 - it won't start the bike, but if you jump start it, the battery will stall the bike. You can hear the engine struggling as it chucks charge into a presumably internally-shorted battery.

On Monday morning I charge the battery fully and it read 14.6v. I then put it to one side and fitted another bike battery I have as a spare. This morning (24 hours later) the battery that had been charged and showing 14.6v is now showing 12.6v. Does this mean the battery is cream crackered?? If I fitted the battery back to the trike it would definately start it alright and would probably last over a week of stopping and starting. I'm going to leave the spare one on for a week or so and see if that one dies on me, if it does then I can assume there is something wrong with the charging system and start saving me pennies for new bits.

Thanks everybody for such quick and informative answers. Don't go away though because I might have some more questions later.

[Ivan]

Martin can answer that one better than me, but the fact that it's a sealed battery - presumably a gel battery? I would have thought it points to a battery that is self-discharging quite quickly.

[Ady]

Martin can answer that one better than me, but the fact that it's a sealed battery - presumably a gel battery? I would have thought it points to a battery that is self-discharging quite quickly.

Hi Ivan, no it's not a sealed battery or gel, you can actually top this one up. Having said that, it is constantly checked and topped up as neccessary with distilled water. I'm going to have it tested tomorrow then that way I'll know if I'm playing about with a duff battery or not. If the battery is ok then I'll have to start looking at the charging system.

[insolare]

Yes but as Martin said, the battery could be duff because of the charging circuit. If you change the battery and it's the charging circuit then that will fail and your back to square one. Repeat ad infinitum.

[oliver90owner]

Ady,

If you are regularly topping up the battery with water, it is probably looking a bit dead.  Particularly if one or more cells are needing more than the others.

With all ciruits operating the charging circuit should be supplying close to 14.4 volts. If it is not doing that, you have a charging fault, or are exceeding the generator output.

Any more (at any load) and it will electrolyse the electrolyte (explosion hazard), much less and it will not fully charge the battery (a 'not-fully-charged' automotive battery will not last long......).  That may likely be a regulator fault if the voltage is stable.

Your 200 amps rating is likely the cranking amps available from the battery.

Regards, RAB

[Ivan]

I quite liked the motorbike batteries that you can top up, although most are sealed/gel batteries now.

My first bike - Kawasaki ZXR750 had a battery like yours, and for some reason, it would overcharge and electrolyse the water. Every now and again the battery would struggle, and I'd find the cells were virtually empty. Top it up with deionised water, and it would work again for another 3-4months before doing the same thing.

[guydewdney]

replacing with a car battery will not damage anything on the trike. Idling will not charge the battery - this is a bike based vehicle - its not designed to idle for long - its designed to filter!

If you are stuck in traffic - kill the headlight - run on sidelight only.

bike alternators / reg-recs are puny - they wont, usually, alter the engine revs by turning lights on and off. get a volt meter on it, and check you are getting well over 13 volts at slightly over tickover with nothing significant on.

Guy
(bike rider for 18 years)

[martin]

a thought did strike me, based on the "informed is good" theory of life that a good old-fashioned 30-0-30 ammeter could be incorporated into the trike design, then an eye could be kept on the "profit and loss" going on........

[Ady]

a thought did strike me, based on the "informed is good" theory of life that a good old-fashioned 30-0-30 ammeter could be incorporated into the trike design, then an eye could be kept on the "profit and loss" going on........

Funnily enough I'm picking one up today Martin and like you said I'll be able to watch what's going on. Think I'll hang fire with the battery swap for now and see how I get on with the ammeter.
Cheers for all the input on this subject from everybody, this is a great site which if I get some time I'll look through the other posts and hopefully oneday, who knows, I might even be able to help someone out myself.