Martin's "Teapots"

[AndySV1K]

I use the term "teapots" under licence from Martin  (hope you dont mind)

The CEO of B&Q was on TV this morning telling everyone how 100 of his stores will be selling windsave turbines from next week.

So this is it then.  Do we all need to wear hard hats while walking around the streets?

Its going to be pretty interesting to see how these things sell.

I wonder how long it will be before i spot one installed (other than the ones i know about already)

Well i guess it answers our discussions with Windsave anyway.  There will be a lot of really p****d off installers out there who were gearing up to install these.  and will feel cheated because they have just been dumped in favour of a national retailer.  It might be good business sense, short term, but theres going to be a lot of people out there now offering alternatives who really wont be fans of windsave.

Andy.

[martin]

and it would, of course have nothing whatsoever to do with an early "flotation" of the company..................
Few more orders in the book, clutter off abroad with several million in his back pocket! - betcha!

[AndySV1K]

You forgot the bit about everyone else picking up the pieces of the industry afterwards.

If you do want one of these though....

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9330400&fh_search=wind&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=search&ts=1159518480272

Have a look at the pictures, theres a shot of one install where the FOS is several metres below the roof line, so how does that work then??

Andy.

[martin]

and I believe it furls - (at a pathetic 30mph), so you'll have that wonderful "gnawing rat" sound transmitting into the structure when there's any wind, tastefully interspersed with the furling "clonks".........
Perhaps they should market it as "ideal for insomnniacs"...........
I note that a certain website has been largely rewritten - they now invoke every obscure theorem on wind to try to blind the mug punter with science - about the only one they haven't yet used are the Thiele-Small parameters - and now say it is "unrealistic to expect it to export to the grid" - well we knew that already!

[Antman]

Well i guess it answers our discussions with Windsave anyway.  There will be a lot of really p****d off installers out there who were gearing up to install these.  and will feel cheated because they have just been dumped in favour of a national retailer.  It might be good business sense, short term, but theres going to be a lot of people out there now offering alternatives who really wont be fans of windsave.

Andy.

The 'Other information' does state "This is not available for self install, you will be contacted on purchase of this item in regards to installation". So presumably there are "professional installers" somewhere who 'benefit' from the business.

"All energy produced is utilised". I guess it is via the grid - but it should clarify that it is not necessarily utilised by the householder unless the household load is sufficient to absorb the energy produced.

"Safety ties for ultimate security" - good - but so have Formula One cars to stop the wheels coming off - and we all see how effective they are 

It will be interesting to see the feedback in 12 months time...

Antman

[martin]

and if you take into account the small base load to the mains to run the "box of tricks", I think you may well end up paying more to keep that running than any electricity gained!

[stephen]

ITV interviewed the Director of CAT in Wales, who said before anyone buys one of these why not buy an Electrasave. it COULD save you more money than the windsave and be better for the environment. He was not a big fan... pardon the pun.
He also confirmed that on housing estates the turbine may not even turn.
I am in discussions with the NHBC at the moment and the issue of mounting big items on gable ends may make housing warranties void.
I am also lobbying housing companies (the big ones) to connect all new houses to green tariffs and take it out of the hands of the consumer.

We all need to do our bit but we also need to get it right or we can easily kill an industry.

Stephen

[Ivan]

53kWh per year just to run the control box?! I can see a negative balance at some roof-top sites!

[KenB]

Ivan,

You make a good point. 53kWh per year to run the controller does seem a bit excessive. 

Paying £1498 to B & Q and then paying an unspecified amount to an installer seems a large outlay for an unpredictable return - if any.

I think that the general public need to be better informed that there are easier ways of reducing the electricity bill, that lead to an immediate saving.

Working from home, I listen to a lot of Radio 4.  I was horrified to find that the mini-stereo had a standby consumption of 6W.  I have reverted to my wind up radio, with a mains adaptor.  The power connsumption now fails to register on my power meter.

I also defrosted the freezer last week, when I found that it was drawing a permanent 50W. 

The fridge/freezer pair now use 0.75kWh a day compared to the previous 1.55kWh.   

That's nearly a 300KWh per annum reduction for the sake of  half an hour and some hot water - easily outweiged any other saving.

We should start a list  "100 practical  things to do first -  before parting with money to B & Q"



Ken

[Bargeman]

Hello,

I entered my local B&Q in search of pipe insulation and a ladder to be confronted by one of these beasts. I picked up the flyer and, after reading it, felt the urge come upon me to make few observations to Navitron's very own Windsave supporters club.

I note that on the Windsave product spec that they admit to a noise level of 53 dBA at 5m distance for 7m/s wind speed. Whilst you may be able to persuade your neighbours to put up with a sound level equivalent to loud speech throughout the day time, I find it difficult to believe that at night this would be acceptable in a residential area. Ambient noise levels of 30 - 35 dBA are consistent with normal sleeping conditions. My understanding is that these are the kinds of noise levels industrial scale wind farms are required to demonstrate at the nearest residential property. In most urban environments anything producing a persistent 53 dBA on a regular basis is likely to fall foul of long established planning guidelines for acceptable levels of noise.

The cut-in wind speed of between 3.5 and 5 m/s excludes a large chunk of the spectrum available down my way. It also goes some way to explaining why the turbine achieves a dBA of only 33 at 5 m/s windspeed, i.e. the thing probably hasn't started turning yet.

I note its expected safe life is 10 years. No mention of any regular maintenance regime to keep it operational.

From the flyer it is not clear whether the £1,498 price includes the LCBP grant, or whether the purchaser can offset any grant they manage to obtain against the price of the system. Does anybody know the answer ?

Finally the statement "Windsave has designed and built probably the world's most efficient way of delivering Green Energy directly into the consumer's property" seems to stray extremely close to edge of probity and worthy of reference to the advertising standards regulator.

regards

[wyleu]

Complain away:
http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/complaints_form/

[Bargeman]

Thanks Wyleu, complaint duly submitted  - process was much more straightforward than I'd expected. I'll keep y'all posted as to any progress (or am I deluding myself). regards

[AndySV1K]

As for the noise, its probably going to be worse than you think.

53dB is not actually all that loud, but the problem with thes things is going to come with inconsistent noise levels. thats the problem, not many people would have trouble sleeping with a continuous noise going on, your brain begins to filter it out.  However the FOS's that ive seen of windasve have been turning and more often not turning so erratically, the noise will be coming and going on a regulare basis.

But to be fair, i have stood underneath one of these things and they are not actually very loud and this was less balanced than a drunk after a lottery win.



Andy.

P.S i use the term FOS.  Its a name i decided to use for the description of a wind turbine = Fans On Sticks

Andy.

[Ivan]

53dB is not that bad if it is outside your house. However, if the device is attached to your house, you will get severe transmitted noise through the building. I have a 2kW wind turbine with twist/tapered blades braced against my garage wall (as WELL as guylines, I hasten to add). I did this to avoid guylines across my entire garden. The noise level outside is almost negligible, even in strong winds. However, the noise inside the garage is loud, even in light winds - this is due to the mechanical noise from the turbine which is transmitted through the structure of the building - ie wind buffeting the blades, and their subsequent vibration, and the noise of the magnets resonating as they pass the coils or vice versa. These noises will occur even in the most perfectly balanced wind turbine - if you want to know what I mean, next time you see a wind turbine spinning, press your ear up against the tower and you will hear the kind of noises that will be transmitted through the building.

[martin]

a couple of other points have sprung to mind - B&Q claim to survey the property to ensure that it's suitable first! - so who do they get to decide, and what are the parameters? - nobody in the REAL renewables industry would touch the things with the proverbial ten foot bargepole, so where are these terribly proficient surveyors and installers going to come from? I cannot for the life of me think of ANY property that would allow this collection of washing machine spares to wheeze up to anything like it's grossly overrated capabilities!
And if it IS connected to a buiding, it's going to make an horrendous racket - do we presume that B&Q will ensure that they only sell them to people who are profoundly deaf?