Plane stupid

[Amy]

Protesters have shut down Stanstead airport this morning.

Dunno whos running their campaign but shirley they would have got more publicity if they did it in 2 weeks time, and the weather might be warmer. Cant be much fun being chained to a fence in the frost.

One BBC reporter has been caught up in the blockade. He is hoping to fly to a German Christmas market for some early shopping.

Isnt this just the type of frivilous air travel that should be stopped?  We have a German farmers christmas market here in brum with well over 100 stalls.  Its all ready cost the environment enough to get them here, so why is it sensible for people to still travel to Germany for more shopping?

[Fiat]

Protesters have shut down Stanstead airport this morning.

Dunno whos running their campaign but shirley they would have got more publicity if they did it in 2 weeks time, and the weather might be warmer. Cant be much fun being chained to a fence in the frost.

One BBC reporter has been caught up in the blockade. He is hoping to fly to a German Christmas market for some early shopping.

Isnt this just the type of frivilous air travel that should be stopped?  We have a German farmers christmas market here in brum with well over 100 stalls.  Its all ready cost the environment enough to get them here, so why is it sensible for people to still travel to Germany for more shopping?

Hi Because they can and want to you may well have a german market in brum but there is no adventure in going to brum if we were to take the same view and not go any where we would very quickly become isolated from the world .I love flying and would go any where in the world at the drop of a hat

[Amy]

Quite right, quality of life is having freedom of choice.
But, ...........is it realy necessary to go shopping in Germany?  Sure the irish schnitzels are off the menu today but we do have a lot of other nice thigs to buy.

Buy British, save the planet.

[martin]

Go to your local Lidl or Aldi
Quality of life has bog all to do with quantity of life - we should also bear in mind that exercising our freedom of choice to fly is helping to speed the juggernaut of ecological armaggeddon for everyone, including those in the third world who's choices are extremely limited already

[Fiat]

Go to your local Lidl or Aldi
Quality of life has bog all to do with quantity of life - we should also bear in mind that exercising our freedom of choice to fly is helping to speed the juggernaut of ecological armaggeddon for everyone, including those in the third world who's choices are extremely limited already

Hi Martin dont you think that by going to these places and buying goods is helping the local economy and bring up they standard of living and
saving lives by shipping medical supplys and food to where it is needed

[martin]

absolutely not! - there are South Sea islanders who will shortly have to move to other islands because the rise in sea-level due to global warming.......I think you'll find their comments on it fairly unprinatable!
I must say that I aslo find the "tourism as income" argument utterly vacuous if based on flying - all it does is allow a few multinationals to make even more money whilst paying a few locals a pittance to run local branches of "Starbucks" or Maccy Ds, whilst hastening that community's imminent demise, whilst totally obliterating local customs and ways of life........
I find little difference between that and the old days of empire when we gave indigenous communities religion, whisky and syphilis

[Ivan]

Even if it did boost their local economies significantly, it is at the demise of our own. In our current fragile economic condition, people should be encouraged to keep their £s inside the UK.

[stephend]

I must say that I aslo find the "tourism as income" argument utterly vacuous if based on flying - all it does is allow a few multinationals to make even more money whilst paying a few locals a pittance to run local branches of "Starbucks" or Maccy Ds

Erm, that's a bit strong.  Tourism is a boon to local economies and not just the big multinationals.  For sure large companies make huge profits, but then local businesses benefit (and sometimes DEPEND!) on foreign tourism too.  Multinationals are few and far between in many tourist spots.  Chiang Mai, Thailand had 1 starbucks and 2 McD's - it also has thousands of local eateries, bars, hotels, hostels ALL run by and owned by locals.  Ask them how they'd like to live without foreign tourism.

, whilst hastening that community's imminent demise, whilst totally obliterating local customs and ways of life........

Someone coined this type of thinking as Assymetric Multiculturalism: we like to be well versed in other cultures and consider ourselves sophisticated when we can invite friends over and have a Thai or Indian meal.  But beware the Thai or Indian who enjoys eating hamburgers!  If you look at places that have been "ruined" by globalisation you'll find that it's the locals who chose to do it for a better way of life (i.e. more cash).  We'd love to go on holiday to a Thai beach and see the local living in authentic bamboo huts.  But given the choice the locals would much rather live in modern concrete buildings. 
This happens everywhere, not just in far flung third world countries.  Why not apply the same criteria for the "obliterating local custums and ways of life" to life in the UK?  Where are the bowler hats, the cucumber sandwiches and tea at garden parties?   (Probably bad examples, but you get the jist)
We're happy for progress and enlightened multiculturalism to happen to us - just don't give it to the locals. 

I find little difference between that and the old days of empire when we gave indigenous communities religion, whisky and syphilis

Except now they're selling the whiskey back to us (and we get the syphilis as a freebie)

[martin]

If we accept the argument that "it isn't all multinationals", there is still the very real problem of flying. Present generations who grew up with flying holidays as an accepted part of life seem to be of the mistaken opinion that it is their "right", when it is in fact a totally selfish and unnecessary waste of the earth's resources.
If "enlightened multiculturalism" is what's brought us Starbucks, MacDonalds, buckets of inedible chemicalised chicken remains (lets be honest, virtually ALL of US "culture"), where's me shotgun?

[Paulh_Boats]

I've never realised before but Tourism and Global Warming will collide in a way to make life very hard for LEDCs (Less Economically Developed Countries - from daughters A-level geography).

Global Warming must reduce to save LEDCs like Africa, Far East or anyone threatened by drought or sea level rise
 -> So oil consumption must reduce / or will reduce past peak oil
   -> So air travel must reduce / will reduce
      -> So LEDC income through tourism will reduce - for some 50%
         -> So LEDCs suffer from global warming and reduced income .... scary  

Obama is right - see comment below.

[martin]

There has to be a fundamental rethink on all fronts, as so much of what is accepted as "the norm" is utterly barking bats......
As an illustration, to keep the economy going, we should all be borrowing even more money to buy even more new cars to preserve the motor industry (and with it our economy),then zoom around in them flashing the plastic on more ways to despoil the earth and use up it's valuable reserves of absolutely everything, when common sense and the environment demands that we do the complete opposite. (save instead off spend, make cars last as long as possible, and use them as little as possible) - somewhere we are getting it horribly wrong

[Amy]

Whether its PC or not, Im a believer that people like amazon indian tribes are better off living the way they do, in ignorance if you wish to call it that.

You dont miss what you dont have and they have a good life in the jungle. They dont need our wasteful unhappy way of life.
Now they have seen the outside world via satelite, they all want a piece of the action, and thats not possible, but its causing problems.
The world cant be equal, there are some "haves" and will be even more "have nots"

Prince Charles caused a storm a few years back when he suggested that kids were wrong to want to aspire to being posh and becks. He rightly said, there arnt enough posh and becks type jobs for all of you and so most will have to settle for reality and do more ordinary things.

Same can be said of poorer peoples. They cant all come to the west, there isnt room, resources etc. They will have to continue living as they are.  If all the world were to try and live as we do in the west, the planet would eat its self in 10 years.

In farming terms, ..........Stocking density = Over grazing = Unsustainable.

[Fiat]

Hi I am up for the whiskey you can keep the syphilis. Amy the next time i go abroad i get you a wolly as you look a bit cold (yet another smite coming)
Now as for going and buying from abroad would say to as an (eg )Ivan stop going to china and bringing buying and bringing back ship loads of goods and increasinghis carbon footprint China has done very well out trade with the west and slowly improveing life for its people.which it is all about as for going to the jungle and not helping them to a better way of life i find wrong ,could you stand and watch some die if you had the cure in your hands developed in the west as we call it only made possable by international trade with third world and alike.My view is well known the seas will rise no matter what we do it is part of this planets life cycle.
Well that should get at least half dozen smites
Frank

[martin]

there is an incredible difference between goods being brought to these shores by boat in bulk, and millions of blobbies heading off for long-haul flights to no particular end but to get utterly pickled somewhere hot, and to come home with an exotic STD..........

[Amy]

Not impressed Fiat.

Do you want to explain what syphalis has got to do with me?