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Author Topic: Data Logging  (Read 3414 times)
kristen
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 10:53:06 AM »

I don't get the pachube thingie.  I realise that it gets data to a place that is shareable.  But that seems to be about it.

But maybe I'm missing something - in which case I'm happy to be enlightened.

I'm on a slightly different approach to Paul.  My method would be to provide a means of each user doing a one-time config step that examined their XML, and asked them to identify the various bits (in a way that would allow reasonable comparison between disparate data sets).

We can have canned LogTemp / WeatherSystemXXX / etc. templates that make the job easy for folk ... but although XML is designed to be a generic data transport mechanism it needs a translation-layer before both sides can be confident they are comparing apples-with-apples.

I have the database capacity online, and that is my primary skill, so I'd be happy to have a fiddle.

One thought I had was to pull the data from pachube - if folk have already gone to the trouble of getting their data up there then that seems a sensible, and consistent, source.
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wyleu
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 03:17:09 PM »

Time to unleash a wyleuesque view of data logging at and it's place in the big wide world.

We are all keen to be efficient and we are realising that before you can improve efficiency ou have to, in some way, measure it.
Well before digital electronics that was a pipe dream for anything this side of industry. Well now we have probably as cheap a hardware solution as we could wish for, One-wire. Great one problem solved.
So what do we measure? well nything and everything is probably the answer. And that as we are also discovering is a fair old task. Just the debate about connectors is awash with debate. But for better or worse there are now starting to be several of us with data in some form or other. Each one of these measurements has at minimum a temperature, but without knowing where, when and what it doesn't really tell you too much. And then there's context just cos I've got a reading of 95C that could mean I've done wonders with my solar panel, my tanks too hot, My tea has nearly boiled or I'm duplicitously lying about my reading cos I work for a dodgy flat panel manufacturer.
Now that is the best and worst.
For most of us we simply want to improve our own system, and a few sensors will tell you how well you are doing. Watching tank temperature drop will tell you about it's insulation, watching the bottom temperature of a tank will tell you if your one-way vale is stuck and the system is thermosiphoning at night, whih is the kind of thing you want to know.
So why would you care what someone elses system is doing? In a word comparison. If after careful analysis you get a efficiency ( and I believe this is probably dimensionless) 1.56 and you get 2.12 then your system is better than mine and I can look to discussion to working out where the differences are. There might well be a fair few red faces when there highly beloved self installed masterpiece is demonstrably half as good as someone else's and there is a great deal of questioning of techniques to go on, but in the end consensus will emerge and the good will know they are good and the great will be fairly sure it couldn't be much better. As for me down with the bad it leaves plenty of scope to improve and some good pointers to how we might do this.
Looking at the chocolate teapot debacle, such simple measurement like this would have allowed it to be the fools gold it was, in a fashion that anybody could understand no matter how much they knew about it.
So how do we generate this majic number?, well we don't know that yet, but it's easy to see that unless we can exchange data effectively between differing systems by standardizing as much as we can. But if we recognise it's worthwhile to make every effort to do this then we can encourage easy exchange as an objctive rather than something that can be retrofitted at some future date.

The use of pachube and suh like is that it allows data streams to be established that have standard structures. I'm busy writing display software for our tank, and I can just plug the output from the sensors into my display programme and hey presto flying temperature colours on tanks, however I'm working at getting it so that instead of looking at my sensors I look at the pachube data of our site and write the code so that that is the input. That way It's easy for me to adapt it to read other peoples data and present them with easy display without them having to write the whole lot themselves. the other thing I can and am doing for Navitron is developing elements that can plug into such a system that represent standard products. A   solar panel with TDC-e controller becomes a standard part that can be presented beside all the other components existing in a particular dwelling ( and that could be quite a range) and anyone that wants to extract data on TDC-e controlled 30 tube arrays can do this, with nothing more than a slightly educated search.

I won't waffle on about the advantages of interconnected site in times of power cut or internet interruption and the comparison of electrical power consumption will flag up some real good and bad preactise, because the social implications of that are wa beyond the predictions of anyone here.

But if you've got a bit of one-wire and a PC try to make the effort to get this data into anything that might be interested. It's not a time to say that software is better or worse than anything else, We ain't going to prove the MAC is any better or worse than Windows or Linux ( we might be able to say which is more reliable thou')  But we if we concentrate on the interconnectedness then the good and the bad idea's in this most beneficial of social networking experiments might make some excellent progress.

We could find out how much of the planet we've saved and how much more there is to do, and that is the tremendous step.

launch rockets, choirs of children, maidens scattering petals and shouts of hurrah from all quarters
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kristen
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 03:47:13 PM »

have an Applaud ... I'm in  Cheesy
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Paulh_Boats
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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 07:25:11 PM »

Does Pachube simply download an EEML file? If so we might be able to format the XML file from LogTemp into a compatible form using a style sheet.

Then the data route would be:

LogTemp => ISP website => Pachube


I find Pachube a bit clunky to use and the data is too generic in its presentation - also you cannot view 10 solar panel installations in parallel.

-Paul

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kristen
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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 08:30:58 PM »

"I find Pachube a bit clunky to use and the data is too generic in its presentation"

Personally I don't see it as any use other than generic storage.  There is merit in that ... but I am amazed that something can become popular with so little in the way of "extra widgets" ...

... mind you, if someone had told me 10 years ago that we would all be communicating with text messages typed on a keyboard with 10 keys, and with most of the vowels left out of the words I would have thought they were barking!
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wyleu
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« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 09:13:22 PM »

The real advantage is that in the process where you have control of the publisher and the subscriber, you will compromise one to accommodate the other and that's a process that can justify itself into all kinds of compromise.

Once you agree to publish in a specific format you accept some responsibility, which helps set boundaries.
It's actually quite a relief.

'You mean I don't have to be outstandingly brilliant in another area of human endeavor?'.
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