Baxi Ecogen

[Helios]

Hello folks,

Has anyone tried the Ecogen mCHP unit from Baxi yet? If so, has anyone found a supplier that is happy for them to connect and sell back? On the basis of discussions regarding larger 'domestic' generation it would seem even less likely that the suppliers would consider the intermittent 1.1 kW output from the Ecogen worth the hassle.

Cheers

[CeeBee]

Hi Helios

Try having a rummage around either http://www.ebico.co.uk/ or http://www.southern-electric.co.uk/. Both can be remarkably good at hiding their offerings so you can't find them on the sites, but I do believe that their export tariff offerings include domestic CHP (explicitly mentioned in a PDF I just found on the Southern site). They do seem to offer a higher rate for solar, which I can only assume is because it produces during the day, when business demand (and instantaneous electricity prices) are high.

That 1.1kW intermittent that you mention stands up well against solar photovoltaic, which is again intermittent (depending on sun), and might produce less than its maximum for a good amount of the time. Any idea how many kWh an Ecogen is likely to generate in a year (in typical use). My solar PV system should end up at near 2000kWh - I imagine they could be comparable, so wouldn't assume that the suppliers won't be interested.

[Helios]

Thanks CeeBee I'll follow that up.

I've tried getting to the bottom of how the Ecogen works - it looks like there are two separate gas valves -one for the main heat exchanger and one for the Stirling engine, but they seem to operate almost simultaneously. I guess therefore that so long as you're running CH or DHW (boiler on) you will be producing electricity - should be able to work out kWh from the time clock on your programmer.

Not quite sure what happens with the Stirling engine if the boiler is 'on' but the main H/X burner is 'off'

As yet there are no Baxi training courses up and running but I'm sure they'll come.

[wdh]

Found this (from November 08) -- http://www.hvnplus.co.uk/page.cfm/action=Archive/ArchiveID=13/EntryID=987

The agreement will see the units being made exclusively available to British Gas customers from the second quarter of 2009 with Baxi predicting the link up could generate revenue of £40million per year.

The companies are now launching a series of pilots with various designs being tested in the homes of British Gas customers.

So, looks like British Gas ONLY - and not yet, unless you are a favoured guinea-pig!


Personally, I suspect that export deals are MASSIVELY less important for CHP than for solar. microCHP is going to be generating almost exclusively when there are people at home, actively using electricity. Most solar output comes at times when little domestic electricity is used.
 

[CeeBee]

Found this (from November 08) -- http://www.hvnplus.co.uk/page.cfm/action=Archive/ArchiveID=13/EntryID=987

I'm sure you all wouldn't expect less of me :-) than to have noticed that the article says:

It is capable of generating 1kWh of electricity

What - in its entire design lifetime? in a year? in a second? I suppose we're just meant to assume that they meant "1kW" (for as long as its turned on). Baxi's own site (as well as fortunately getting this right) says that the thermal output is 24kW. That's quite powerful. You wouldn't want 24kW of heat turned on for very long (at least I wouldn't).

[dhaslam]

It seems that the normal heat output is 6Kw and there is an extra burner to output up to 18Kw more if it is needed.    It should work quite well in winter,if grid connected,  but not very practical in summer.
http://www.baxi.co.uk/youtube.htm

[sparkymatt]

Hi guys, i am presently about to install one of the first installations of this product, i can catagorically state british gas will not be the only place you can purchase this product

[mespilus]

Hi guys, i am presently about to install one of the first installations of this product, i can catagorically state british gas will not be the only place you can purchase this product

Welcome.

Let us all in the secret of the price.

[Ivan]

....and please confirm the ratio of electricity/heat production

[ashleythomas]

has anyone got an update on when the Ecogen is due to be released, its likely price and whether it will qualify for the Clean Energy Cashback feed in tariffs?

[J0015]

I am also interested in this as we will be installing a new boiler this summer.  I have been watching this development for a few years now (before Baxi got involved) and am disappointed that the government are only offering a Feed-in Tariff payment of 10p/kWh. Considering it is using waste heat that would normally be expelled through the flue, it is probably greener than the photovoltaic panels. I would like to see a complete (cradle to grave) carbon footprint for both of these technology's. 

Does anybody have information on the cost (boiler & installation) & availability of the Ecogen yet?

http://blog.baxi.co.uk/

http://alturl.com/zouf

[djh]

Calor also had it on their stand at Ecobuild

http://www.calor.co.uk/futureenergy/calor-ecogen-power.html

[KenB]

This is based on the Sunpower design for the 1.1kW free piston Stirling engine.

I saw these back in 2004 on a visit to the test facility in Peterborough, before the original company Microgen went bust.  At that time they were reliant on a Japanese manufacturer to produce the engines for them.  Baxi bought up what they could from the wreckage.

It's a pity that on the Calor site - they have at least one incorrect spelling of "Stirling"  - perhaps it's a Freudian slip and they were thinking of all the revenue in sterling it would bring in ;-)

At 10p per kWh FIT, and a gas in to power out efficiency of just 16%, (That's the efficiency figures Microgen reported)  it's not going to pay for itself any day soon, might just pay off the interest on the green mortgage you need to take out to pay for it, and you get half-price heat.


Ken

[Contadino]

There's a case study somewhere on the Baxi site (sorry, d/l'ed, read then deleted it) and it said it produced 1100-odd kwh over a year, which resulted in a net production of 900-odd kwh for the year once controllers, etc.. had been taken into account.  The document is the one with a photo of it mounted on a garage wall.

[alank]

Interesting article here:

http://www.baxi.co.uk/990_1747.htm

70kWh in the first week sounds impressive!