navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
UK's most popular Renewable Energy Forum May 25, 2012, 12:25:31 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: UPDATE ON DECC APPLICATION FOR LEAVE TO APPEAL TO THE SUPREME COURT | Yingli Green Energy's PV Module Ranks No.2 in TUV Rheinland Energy Yield Test | Navitron Solar Showers at Glastonbury for Year 5!
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: UK Feed-In Tariff  (Read 4783 times)
Ted
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2677



WWW
« on: May 21, 2009, 07:52:38 PM »

I've just got back from the FIT for Purpose Feed-in Tariff conference held today in Llandissilio in Pembrokeshire, hosted by West Wales ECO Centre and The Environmental Network for Pembrokeshire and supported by the Welsh Assembly Government.

The day got underway with a great presentation from Dr Josef Pesch, of juwi Holdings AG, about how the renewables system works in Germany. This left everyone feeling more than a little envious.  They have a presumption for development - if no substantive objections are raised to a planning application within 3 months then you just go ahead.  Connection to the grid is paid for by the suppliers, with penalty fees kicking in in the event of delays.  FITs are fixed and guaranteed for twenty years from signing-up.

Unfortunately John Moriarty, the DECC Assistant Director for Feed-in Tariffs Policy and responsible for introducing FITs in the UK, failed to show up!  Peter Davies (meeting chairman and the Sustainable Development Commissioner for Wales) gave the presentation in his place from a script provided. He had to admit that it was mostly unintelligible to him, which was also clearly a view shared by the audience!

The other major presentation was from Hugo House (Generation Marketing at Good Energy) who looked at the various mechanisms by which a FIT system could be operated. There are several potential mechanisms being discussed but the top two contenders seem to be 'Supplier Purchase', which sounds very similar to the current model but a 'Central Fund' option is also a distinct possibility - although Josef Pesch considered that this one might run into EU 'subsidy' problems.

There are some more details about these options on the Good Energy website : http://www.goodenergy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/090323_good-energy_feed-in-tariff-models.pdf  but note that this is written very much from the supplier's perspective rather than the generator/consumer.

Currently the best guess is that the FIT will be 30p/kWh for wind and 40p/kWh for PV - no mention of any others - and based on total generation and would apply  to all systems up to 5MW capacity.  These prices would be guaranteed for a set number of years. It is quite likely that there will be a stepped tariff structure based on capacity - so a 5MW turbine isn't going to be paid at the top 30p rate. It isn't yet clear if ROCs would still apply in addition to these figures or if anyone signing up to FITs would have to fore go the notional ROC element.

There is still a big unanswered question about whether FITs would even be available for existing installations of if they might only be open for newly (post April 2010) installed systems.

No word on whether any of the existing grant schemes (e.g. LCBP) would continue or not, and, if they do, what impact they would have on FIT prices.

DECC will be running a consultation process this summer (expected to be July to September) with government response due by Christmas and with the FIT due to be introduced from April 2010.

A video was made of the main presentations (but not the Q&A sessions) and it is expected that extracts will be published on the web fairly soon.

I'll keep everyone posted on any developments I hear about.

But please make sure you get involved in the consultation process - it will be pretty important (small understatement!) for the future of small renewables in the UK.
Logged

Volunteer moderator
6kW Proven turbine, 20 Navitron tube solar, GSHP, WBS, Rayburn wood central heating
StBarnabas
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2111


St Barnabas Chapel (2009)


« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 10:23:04 PM »

Ted
many thanks for your efforts for keeping us informed. Bit of a worry that if I install my PV system this summer I may be making a very silly economic choice.
Sean
Logged


Gestis Censere. 40x47mm DHW with TDC3. 3kW ASHP, 9kW GSHP, 3kW Navitron PV with Platinum 3100S GTI, 6.5kW WBS, 5 chickens. FMY 2009.
Ivan
Guest
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2009, 01:27:27 AM »

Thanks, Ted for the report. Please post a link to the consultation if and when you become aware of it.

Is it likely that we'll get feed in at 30-40p for renewables? I can see sales of wind and PV picking up, if so.
Logged
Ted
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2677



WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2009, 10:50:22 AM »

Yes, will do.

Something I didn't report, as I hadn't time to double-check it, was that at the meeting both Mick Bates AM and Phil Gray* of the Welsh Assembly said that the Permitted Development for solar panels and GSHP, passed as a SI for England last year, was now passed into law for Wales as well. This led to calls from several members of the audience (not just me!) asking when this was announced and how did they manage to keep it so quiet. But they were adamant that it was the case.

It turns out that they were wrong.  All that happened, an ex-planner friend tells me, was that a Guidance Note was issued to planners.   

I'll be trying to get to the bottom of this issue too.

* sorry - can't remember his current job title but he used to be Finance Director of WEFO, responsible for controlling EU grant funding projects in Wales.

I also got to meet Vicky Moller, who used to be John Seymour's partner on his famous smallholding, and a lovely lady.
Logged

Volunteer moderator
6kW Proven turbine, 20 Navitron tube solar, GSHP, WBS, Rayburn wood central heating
sjaglin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 115



WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2009, 07:17:33 PM »

Just a question, in the eventuality that the FIT would concern only new installations, decommissioning and recommissioning the installation after little increase of power could be a solution?

Stef
Logged

Ivan
Guest
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2009, 11:57:36 PM »

I've always been very disillusioned by the Welsh Assembly. 'Good' Legislation passed in England and Scotland seems to take forever to make its way to Wales. I made an appointment to see the Welsh Transport Minister's Assistant a few years ago to question why 'Clean Air' Grants (it was called something like that) weren't available in Wales, whereas they had been in England for two years. The answer was that he was working hard on it, and it would be announced in the near future. A few months later (just in time for the funding to be withdrawn) Wales announced the exact same scheme as England had. And yet it took two full years to 'draft' the new legislation.   Huh
Logged
Richard Owen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1995


Navitron PV Installer


« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2009, 01:36:55 PM »

Part of the problem is due to Wales having no history of legislative powers (well not since Henry VIII combined the English and Welsh legal systems.)

The Scottish parliament took over from the Scottish office which had retained a large number of powers from the Act of Union. That combined with the power of the Scottish parliament to make primary legislation, means things happen faster.

The Welsh Assembly does not have the power to make primary legislation. So, if it wants to do anything that isn't in its small list of delegated powers, it has to draft something that is then sent to Westminster and has to be passed there. Recently, there was some attempt to streamline the process using something called Orders in Council (I think), but it still takes a long time.

Perhaps you need to start agitating for the Welsh Assembly to have primary legislation capability and thereby become a proper parliament?
Logged

44 Yingli 230Wp panels feeding into 2x Solar Edge SE5000 inverters.
20x 58mm SE, 20x 58mm SW, Solar Thermal feeding 320l thermal store.
10kW heat pump.
300W of Hydro Power.
Ted
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2677



WWW
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 06:29:08 PM »

Richard, that's true to a certain extent - but this is a little different.

For example, the public consultation period in Wales on microgeneration permitted development closed in November 2007.

That's 18 months during which precisely nothing has happened in terms of legislation other than that the intention to have solar as permitted development has been announced by politicians over and over again. Indeed it has been repeated so many times that the politicians themselves were convinced that the legislation had actually been passed, when it hasn't.

It's little short of mind boggling.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 06:30:50 PM by Ted » Logged

Volunteer moderator
6kW Proven turbine, 20 Navitron tube solar, GSHP, WBS, Rayburn wood central heating
Ivan
Guest
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 11:17:47 PM »

Unfortunately, ever bit the same as my experience.
Logged
noah
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 306


« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 02:14:58 PM »

Does anyone know why hydro always seems to be the poor relation?
Why should solar and wind get a higher reward for power generated when they are usually cheaper to install but less reliable as sources?
Logged
Ted
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2677



WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 02:47:04 PM »

The answer is in your own question.

The inherent 100% capacity factor of most hydro systems means that suppliers consider you would be making too much money if they paid you similar rates as for wind or PV.
Logged

Volunteer moderator
6kW Proven turbine, 20 Navitron tube solar, GSHP, WBS, Rayburn wood central heating
noah
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 306


« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 03:06:53 PM »

No doubt. I wonder how they define "too much money". According to Peter Mandelson there is no such thing.
However, I think the point is valid: the rewards should be greater for those offering more reliable energy, not less.
Logged
Ivan
Guest
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2009, 01:40:51 AM »

I agree that renewables should be rewarded according to value of energy NOT cost of installation. If a technology is economically unviable, it shouldn't be encouraged over and above more viable alternatives. To do so, helps to prop up unrealistic market prices.

PV is considered to be more valuable energy than wind or hydro because it is produced during peak times of day. Not sure about hydro - I'd always assumed it gets bunched together with wind, biomass, CHP etc.
Logged
Paulo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 37


« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 11:25:55 PM »

For anyone who has not located the Government's Renewable Energy Strategy consultation, see the link below:

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/what_we_do/uk_supply/energy_mix/renewable/res/res.aspx

This includes their prefered option ('Lead Scenario') for the Feed in Tariff (FIT).

In summary, it seem like PV and Wind do better that hydro, as Noah says, see attached extract.

DECC have given until the 15th October to reply, I know that there is a lot of distrust in government voiced on this forum, but if we have opinions, we should voice them, hopefully some of you will support a call for higher levels of support for hydro in particular.

Cheers,
Paul

* FIT Table 2.pdf (26.09 KB - downloaded 81 times.)
Logged
Paulo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 37


« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2009, 11:51:20 PM »

Sorry,
Just seen the FIT threads!!
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!