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Ivan
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« on: July 12, 2009, 10:56:09 PM » |
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I went to Chug's biodiesel bash over the weekend. Chug put on a great, well-planned weekend, and it was great fun despite the rain. Saw some excellent demonstrations of a number of Turk burners and also a babington. Got me thinking about using glycerine fuel.
Glycerine is too viscous for use in a diesel engine (that's part of the reason it's being removed in the biodiesel process). At the end of the biodiesel process, much of the methanol ends up in the glycerine waste product. The methanol makes the mixture much more volatile, and I presume it greatly improves the octane rating. In my garage, I have a Lister D engine, which is designed for slow speed operation on TVO (tractor vaporising oil - which you make by blending petrol and heating oil). I started to wonder whether the glycerine/methanol would burn effectively in such a setup.
I did an internet search and came up with virtually nothing. Before I give it a go, has anyone ever tried this? Or any input on the idea?
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Twenty4Seven
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 01:25:59 AM » |
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I think the problem is that biodiesel by-product contains stuff other than glycerine, specifically soap and catalyst. If you do manage to run your engine on it, it wouldn't be long (a few hours) before you'd be doing a decoke.
Nick
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2kW PV
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Ivan
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 08:47:07 PM » |
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Hmm. Good point. I suppose I could do the acidulation process to remove the NaOH and the soap. It's not something that's well documented, and my chemistry isn't that great. The only reference I've seen, uses phosphoric acid (I've heard people discussing the use of coke). I suspect other acids could be used - I happen to have a keg of battery acid in my garage. Maybe that would work?
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biff
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2009, 11:05:12 PM » |
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when i run my grey ferguson tvo,i tried just about everything,even helicopter fuel(great stuff) but i had to revert back to 3 part of 28second heating oil and 1 part petrol, after getting warmed up on the neat petrol,if i switched over too quickly to save petrol the little crittur would cough and die,also before shutting down for the day,it was necessary to switch back over to the neat petrol. a lot of hassle but you could,nt help but love them because of their great pulling power and light weight.very good in bad ground,,ie the bog but the diesel was a winner.
biff
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rt29781
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2009, 11:04:09 AM » |
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Has anyone tried diluting the glycerol with ethanol (or methanol) until the viscosity is about right? They are both alcohols so no reactions will take place. To measure viscosity just drill a hole in a plastic cup and measure time to empty cup. Adjust the size of the hole to get a reasonable time with regular diesel then try mixtures of glycerol/(m)ethanol until in the correct viscosity range.
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Ivan
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2009, 11:54:47 PM » |
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Well that's kinda what I was thinking - my glycerine is actually pretty runny as it has the residual methanol. As long as the methanol isn't recovered or evaporated away, it will probably be as runny as TVO. 'Twenty4Seven' has made a good point, though, that the glycerine has other things in it. The soap doesn't bother me too much in a spark ignition engine, as I don't have to worry about injector spray patterns. However, the residual NaOH might make a mess of the bore/piston/valves/exhaust - so acidulation (never really worked out what the difference between that and acidification) would be a good idea, I think, to remove this problem.
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Stuart
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 07:55:01 AM » |
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8kw woodburner, Big piles of wood, 20 tube solar panel, custom tanks, back up gas boiler, North walls internally insulated
1968 landy that runs on anything and a currently wild meadow garden.
Nr. Tow Law
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rt29781
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 11:07:40 AM » |
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Adjust the pH with glacial acetic acid (like vinegar without the water). That is organic and will burn but will make sure the mixture is not alkaline as it goes in the engine. It is a weak acid so is unlikely to corrode the engine. Soaps are sodium salts of fatty acids so will burn also. NaOH will become sodium acetate.
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