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wookey
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2009, 02:15:05 AM » |
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yes, I use the pump Kristen linked and am happy to recommend it. As I explained in previous threads, I reckon it is the most cost-effective solution.
The controller can be 12V too (mine runs off 6-30V). So if you want to do a low-power demo (and that may be a good idea to keep the size of car battery you need for a show down) then I'd suggest something very much like my setup. (daily power consumption 112 Wh for 7hr run).
Of course if you will be installing bog-standard mains pump + controller, then you ought to demonstrate exactly what you are installing, in which case an inverter is the way forward. Plenty available on ebay, for example, although I have no idea how they work with CH cicrculators.
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Wookey
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SteveH
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2009, 09:23:27 AM » |
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I've run the central heating system in the house we had in Wales from a modified sine wave inverter & spoken with the heating engineer about this also...
The circulator runs just fine off the inverter... The standard household CH programmer doesn't, lots of loud buzzing & that slight fishy smell that goes with hot electronic components.
I believe the problem to be the rudimentary switch mode power supply in the controller... It's designed to grab what ever voltage it required for the screen & logic from a rising sine wave input, just clipping it of the front of the rising voltage & storing it in a biggish capacitor...
The heating engineer had met somebody who had put a big capacitor across the input to the CH programmer & he said this worked with a modified sine wave inverter ... I was going to go a stage further & include a 240-240 isolating transformer along with the capacitor to take more of the "Steppy" nature from the inverter supply... Moved before I got chance to try it though.
I suspect the Solar controllers won't like none sine power... You could ask Navitron.
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Preveli, South Crete.
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plumbskill
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2009, 10:07:29 AM » |
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Have just looked at the navitron 500w 12v inverter [modified sine wave p588639] that sleepybubble suggested.
Looks exactly what I need, unless somebody tells me otherwise? Will wait for some comments before ordering one.
Thanks for the help
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Justme
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2009, 10:09:40 AM » |
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Have just looked at the navitron 500w 12v inverter [modified sine wave p588639] that sleepybubble suggested.
Looks exactly what I need, unless somebody tells me otherwise? Will wait for some comments before ordering one.
Thanks for the help
Did you miss the bit where people are saying CHECK before buying a modified sinewave cos electronics dont like it? Justme |
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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
200w (250w peak) 12v turbine as a tester
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h @12v
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sleepybubble
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« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2009, 10:29:20 AM » |
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Have just looked at the navitron 500w 12v inverter [modified sine wave p588639] that sleepybubble suggested.
Looks exactly what I need, unless somebody tells me otherwise? Will wait for some comments before ordering one.
Thanks for the help
Did you miss the bit where people are saying CHECK before buying a modified sinewave cos electronics dont like it? Justme The pump will not be a problem with MSW, my only concern is the TDC, which will have a dropper for the sensor circuit, its really worth ringing Navitron and talking to sales. Although it sounds like Brandon is already doing it on a MSW inverter. When you do get an answer let us know as it is something I had thought of doing myself, (building a demo rig for shows) just not got around to it. |
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;-)
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plumbskill
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« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2009, 11:55:10 AM » |
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Just spoke to a guy at navitron, and he says they use a 300w inverter for their mobile demo.
Wheres Ivan ?
Dont understand anything about sine waves, whats the worst that can happen with the controller, dont want to wreck it
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Justme
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« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2009, 12:43:43 PM » |
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Dont understand anything about sine waves, whats the worst that can happen with the controller, dont want to wreck it
Yep thats it you can wreck it. Mains AC is in a smooth (ish) wave of voltage rising & falling. modified sine is a squared of rising & falling of the volts. The rises & falls are steeper & more sudden. Complex electronics dont like it. Some will work but make noises, over heat, not last as long & some plain die or fail to work from the off. |
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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
200w (250w peak) 12v turbine as a tester
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h @12v
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ericw
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« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2009, 01:13:09 PM » |
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The KISS approach
Resol do a 12v controller (Deltasol B) so you could use one of those and then circulate the water a hidden 12v pump.
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plumbskill
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2009, 02:08:51 PM » |
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Have got my demo panel and Deltasol "B" delivered from navitron, so am ready to start
I dont realy want to buy a 12v solar pump, but want to make the system as realistic as possible.
The options I think I have, are to use the deltasol pumping station just for show, with a 240v pump "hidden" wired to an inverter to switch on and off, as and when required to demonstrate hot water circulation.
I can still wire in the sensors on the controller, it would not be entirely realistic, but close.
Im assuming that having the pumping station [connected from inverter] wired to 12v controller, would upset it.
Any bright sparks [excuse the pun] know the answer, thanks for your help
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ecogeorge
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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2009, 02:27:01 PM » |
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So you've got a 12v battery , 12v controller but need to run a 240v pump because they're cheaper and it's only a demo unit??
You could always run it via a relay- 12dc coil switching 240ac but you'll still need 240v - inverter .
Is the extra cost of a 12v pump less than the extra cost of an inverter??
I would either have 240v controller ,240v pump and run all from inverter, or
have 12v controller ,12v pump and run all from battery with a demo 30w solar panel.
Explain the benifits of a 12v system , -- no costly part P sir, truly a green system with no running costs sir, and no problem during power cuts sir.
Best of luck.
George.
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ericw
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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2009, 03:03:20 PM » |
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Have got my demo panel and Deltasol "B" delivered from navitron, so am ready to start
I dont realy want to buy a 12v solar pump, but want to make the system as realistic as possible.
Suitable 12v pumps for your demo system can be had for as little as £30. They are tiny and easy to hide and you could still pass the water thro the unpowered pump station. (Even easier if the pump had the rotor removed) Even if you didn't hide it, I'm sure that the average potential customer would understand why you were using a 12v battery powered pump to circulate the water for demo purposes while having the 'real' system on show. |
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dhaslam
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« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2009, 03:40:39 PM » |
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There is a very inexpensive 12V pump on ebay item no. 330343310847. r
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plumbskill
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« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2009, 03:50:21 PM » |
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The reason for going for a 240v pump is that i have a few lying around. A navitron pump [12v] is about £230, as previously mentioned.
I am trying to keep the cost as low as possible to start with as it is a new business venture, hope to improve later.
ERICW, where can i find the £30 pumps that you mentioned, and can they be wired into the controller? thanks
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plumbskill
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« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2009, 04:08:48 PM » |
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Thanks dhaslam, just looked on ebay. just what im looking for. Will get the missus to order one
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ericw
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« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2009, 04:26:15 PM » |
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I actually have what looks like the same one as mention by dhaslem from another supplier and it is very suitable. It will give you a fairly low flowrate - and hence a good delta temp on the panel - looks better for business. The data sheet for the 12v controller is here http://www.resol-gmbh.de/Produktdokumente/48002780_DeltaSol_B_12V.monen.pdfYou just connect the pump to R1 as normal - but make sure you connect the +ve & -ve the correct way round |
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