C.R.A.C

[chickensoup]

Evening Des,
                 If he's got a y or s plan, can it not just be programmed to come on at dusk.If yours hasn't dumped all that glorious heat into his ,then his cyl stat and programmer will sort him out.

                      Chicko.

[desperate]

Wotcha Chicko

Good batting manthink, I may need to rejig his controls coz hes on a weird rayburn and boiler system, but it must be possible.

Desp

[wyleu]

Probably the most beneficial thought we've had to date.

[dhaslam]

If you get sunny weather for a longish period then another cylinder won't help all that much  unless of course there is heavy usage  from the second cylinder.   The sun at present is exceptional by recent weather standards but is quite possible at other times of the year.  If you had this amount of sun in June it would  produce much higher temperatures.  It probably only means a loss of  100kwh or two at most  but if you don't want to dump hot water it may mean some sort of  radiator or other method of losing heat.   An alternative might be to circulate heat to the panel at night but this may not be very effective in summer.   I have a handy system.  If I open the insulation on the buffer tank  heat dumped to it gradually dissipates.   

This a comparison of February and March to date with last June.     The effect is a bit less because mains water is much colder. 

[noelsquibb]

Cant help wondering if dumping heat in any house in midsummer is going to be a good thing...

Unless you can flog em an air con package 

What about a ground loop ?
Not much ground water movement in London clay.
You could have a nice big pool of underground hot, that the UFH could use in autumn, or you could grow exotic plants in a greenhouse over.

On reflection, I reckon you've possibly got more tubes than you need. So it might be a case for removing some and seeing how a reduced output balances up, or expanding your hot water use with a swimming pool or offering shelter to teenage girls .....  nice problem to have really

[desperate]

!Hola!

Wyleu, thank you , my neighbours are great people, and it's my pleasure if I can do them a favour.

D Haslam thanks for the graphic, if I am reading it correctly it shows the sun is not going to get much more powerful from now until june, but of course there will be many more hours of it (we hope). You are right in a sunny week I am going to need a dump rad as well as the extra cylinder, still as long as the rad in the loft is the last resort thats fine.

Noel, I did consider a heat pump using the ground water, but I didnt reckon it much. As for not much groundwater movement in London clay........you must be joking, I have a sump pump permanently dewatering the ground here and we are shifting  20-30,000 litres a day when the weather is wet, like all winter most years. I think we have Artesian water rising from the chalk that is 10m below GL here, it can fill the sump in less than a minute with sweet clear water that I have drunk before now with no ill effects. Maybe I should bottle it and sell it as CACTUSVILLE EAU DE SPERATEin glass reuseable bottles of course, and possibly a version with a hint of GRAVY DE COR EAU SION, I can see it now this time next year we'll be..............locked up
You mention greenhouse..... now some nitwit has filled mine up with a blinkin' big heap of firewood, so a heat dump that dries logs is not arf a bad idea

Desperate

[Brandon]

CACTUSVILLE EAU DE SPERATEin glass reuseable bottles of course, and possibly a version with a hint of GRAVY DE COR EAU SION, I can see it now this time next year we'll be..............locked up

Desperate

First, an applaud for that effort, and then on to more serious matters

You mention greenhouse..... now some nitwit has filled mine up with a blinkin' big heap of firewood, so a heat dump that dries logs is not arf a bad idea Grin

I am toying with the idea of putting UFH in my wood store to dump to... (the wife will not have it until the long fabled extension is built)... does give one the ability to over spec the tubes without having to resort to installing a swimming pool

[noelsquibb]

and we are shifting  20-30,000 litres a day when the weather is wet, like all winter most years. I think we have Artesian water rising from the chalk that is 10m below GL here, it can fill the sump in less than a minute with sweet clear water that I have drunk before now with no ill effects. Maybe I should bottle it and sell it as CACTUSVILLE EAU DE SPERATE in glass reuseable bottles of course, and possibly a version with a hint of GRAVY DE COR EAU SION, I can see it now this time next year we'll be..............locked up
You mention greenhouse..... now some nitwit has filled mine up with a blinkin' big heap of firewood, so a heat dump that dries logs is not arf a bad idea

Hey Desp

that's a serious resource you've got there and a fair spin on the meter to pump it I suspect.

If its bubbled up through a chalk bed it should be real nice stuff. If it were mine I would get it tested and use it in preference to that recycled Thames stuff.

Let me know how much GRAVY DE COR EAU SION you need and give me a bit of time to test it and fully recover  

Reckon the wood drying idea has to be the one, as its a way of storing the spare energy for future use.

Nothing wrong with warming the neighbours though. Altruism always brings good karma  

noel

[desperate]

Hallo Playmates, I hope you are all well

I am trying to suss out my heat dump arrangement and would appreciate a little help.

I want to have three options for loosing heat here as it looks like we are going to have a big surplus if the sun comes out for more than a couple of days in a row, first I want to dump heat into the TS, via a hot rod type exchager screwed into the immersion boss. When the TS reaches a set temp then I will divert the heat into next doors HWCyl via another exchanger, then when their cyl is hot I want to divert to a rad in our loft.

So my questions are, if I use Honeywell V4044 diverter valves triggered by Honeywell cylinder stats, I am going to end up with 3 valves and 3 stats powered from the TDC3  secondary relay:will this work? or should I go and lie down in the shed?

Also next door they have a direct cylinder working off an old aga contraption so I may need to make a heat exchanger. As they use the immersion quite a lot, I'm thinking of a home made Willis type thingy made from some 28mm copper with 22mm inside, so it could have the cylinder water in the 28mm and then the solar loop would circulate through the 22mm. I could easily make an exchanger 1 metre long out of standard plumbing bits for not a lot of wonga and they are up for it, so do you reckon it would be an effective heat dump and do anything significant for their hot water? or should I just stay in the shed?

To update the Dragonstove and toobs situation, now the weather has warmed a bit we are back down to about 6m3 per week of gas, but...............we're on the last dregs of demo wood, so if winter has another go at us that wobbly old fence down the side may just disappear. The good news is that Mr Logman is more than happy to tip wood in the front garden whenever he has something decent so now the stack is up to about 5 tonnes I think.

See you soon

Desperate

[KLD]

Desp,

"lie down in the shed"? Have you installed a bathtub there then  Erm, heat dump, I meant.

The Willis type heat exchanger: would you reckon you could transfer enough heat through that? With your 60 toobs you've got a lot of heat to dispose of. My gut feeling is that you need something with a little more umph. How about a PHE from an combi, with the secondary side pumped as well? You could keep the solar loop short, install the PHE under your control, and only have a dedicated pair of pipes going through to your neighbour. If I understood your description correctly, you'd need a bronze pump, so a little extra dosh then just a length of 22 inside 28 pipe.

Klaus

[Brandon]

you can thermo syphon through a combi PHE, I have done it, and wookey has his rigged thus.

I do not reckon that 22mm in 28mm will do it, but a couple of those 22mm to 10 or 8mm 4 way end feed couplers might, so you could splay the pipe out a wee bit and get a better surface area...

or a section of 3 inch LCS with a 3-21/2 socket on the end and a chicken-esq home rolled retro immersion coil would do well.

EDIT- a bit like this.

[Brandon]

link added to message above in the edit, but thought this post might flag it up for you.

[desperate]

Nice one Brandon, thank you.

I like the your idea of the 4 way couplers, my local plumbing shop can supply an 8 way to 10mm, I'm thinking maybe 8 lengths of 10mm inside a piece of 35mm, then it would all be made out of standard bits. I made an exchanger using 2 pieces of 22mm brazed through an immersion plug "Chicken-esq" which will be inside my TS, but I am not sure I fully trust my brazed joint in next doors house without being able to keep an eye on it.

Desperate

[desperate]

G'day possums

a couple of thought on the heat dump, I have set up the first stage of the heat dump to an old myson kickspace heater that was "kicking around" in the playpen and a diverter valve in the solar loop. Now the sensor that triggers the valve is of course s3 at the top of the cylinder, as my dump wont activly cool the cylinder, rather than stop heating it it may be in operation for some time at a stretch. I dont think that is a problem,is it?

Klaus, that is a brilliant idea of yours, re the heat ex for my neighbours cylinder, he seems happy with it, it's cheap, and I have 2 old combis waiting in the playpen that I can chop up. I dont need a bronze pump as the neighbours (Chris and Karen) will house the exchanger next to their cyl, and my solar loop will be pumped to it.

Mind you all this talk of heat dumps has hastened the return of winter .

Wyleu  By the way, I have developed a muti sensor no-wire monitoring system accurate to 0.1 deg c
piccys to follow (Greenbeast )

Desperate

[mespilus]

you can thermo syphon through a combi PHE, I have done it, and wookey has his rigged thus.

I do not reckon that 22mm in 28mm will do it, but a couple of those 22mm to 10 or 8mm 4 way end feed couplers might, so you could splay the pipe out a wee bit and get a better surface area...

or a section of 3 inch LCS with a 3-21/2 socket on the end and a chicken-esq home rolled retro immersion coil would do well.

EDIT- a bit like this.

I've still got some Turkish approx 10A / 2.4 kW immersion heaters
that have a 1 1/2 inch bsp thread on them.
I've only previously offered them to veg oil guys on their forum
to make inline heaters.

If of any interest, I can dig out the BES parts list to go from/to standard copper pipe
into malleable steel fittings.
I can also offer a length of 2 inch steel pipe with threads in either end.